Guide to Replica Watches

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Below is a list of sellers verified through the community as having a variety of content and confirmed legitimacy as a seller at r/ChinaTime tier. Their product quality will range from bottom shitter to high tier, based on your request, preferences, cost and QC approval.

These are different to a Trusted Dealer (or TD) at r/RepTime level, as these TDs go through a stringent review process

WuWatch
Web: https://wuwatch.cartel.click/
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21178530
WeChat: WuWatch-
WhatsApp: +86 199 2759 6945
Yupoo: N/A

Duke Jones
Web: https://www.duke-jones.com/
WeChat: pmmhq520
WhatsApp: +86 176 0800 5834
Yupoo: https://p719583387.x.yupoo.com/albums PW: 888888 (previously 666666)

HontWatch
Web: http://www.hontwatch.ru/
WeChat: N/A
WhatsApp: +86 131 1330 7655

The One Watches
Dhgate: N/A
Web: https://www.theonewatches.io/
WeChat: The5711
WhatsApp: +86 170 8193 4955
Email: Theonewatches.ru@gmail.com

Jason007
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/14498114
Web: https://u-onewatch.com/
WeChat: N/A
WhatsApp: +86 159 1439 7518 & +86 137 3343 7007 (Aaron: +86 186 7944 2775)

Btime
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20042879
Web: https://58vakcak.com/
WeChat: N/A
WhatsApp: +86 185 8882 2256

Hanbelson
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20777759
Yupoo: https://hanbelsonwatch.x.yupoo.com/ PW: 2021511

lkwatches
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/19780983

Stas
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21229352

Bilibili_watch
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21059386
Yupoo: https://zywatch.x.yupoo.com

Luxurywatches 1
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21113018
Yupoo: https://kevin-snir.x.yupoo.com/

Fujimin003
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20539379
Yupoo: https://alan-123456.x.yupoo.com/albums

Watch GT01
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21347248

Joan007
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20952500

Hello_watch
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20223682

lussoreloj
Dhgate: https://dhgate.com/store/21441757

Mark1994
Dhgate: https://dhgate.com/store/20535850

This is a list of Trusted Dealers for r/RepTime tier sales and have undergone a strict process to be approved as a TD.

The websites & email addresses listed here are the only one to be used. Any other website found online or in a post other than from the dealer itself are not recommended. Be careful, copycat websites are one of the most common scam out there and their addresses are very similar. Do your due diligence before making any online order.

Asian7750
https://www.asian7750.co

ChazingTime
https://chazingtime08.co/

Dealer Clocks
https://dealerclocks.to

Geek Time
https://geektime.watch/

HONTWATCH
http://www.hontwatch.ru

InTime Watches
https://www.intime06.co

Jtime Watch Store
https://jtime.io

Mirotime
https://mirotime.io/

Narikaa
https://narikaa.smugmug.com/

Perfect Clones
https://www.pfc8388.com/

PureTime
https://PureTimeWatch.io

Silix
http://www.silix-prime.es

TheOneWatches
https://www.theonewatches.io/

Toro Bravo
http://www.trb88.club

Watch Eden
http://www.WatchEden.net

Trusty Time
https://trustytime888.io/

Extended list:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/forums/trusted-rep-dealers.147/

Last update 9/1/2023

eplica watches are a weird thing. People from r/reptime love the word “replica” and get butt-hurt when their $400 Rolex is called “fake”. We can understand that, as those replica watches can truly be works of engineering themselves and can even be of the same quality as the pieces that inspired them.

At Chinatime, though, we do not put on such airs. If our watches are fake-ass watches that cost less than some of my Uber trips, and that’s OK.

We could spend a lot more money on arguably better watches that look more like the originals, but there’s something truly rewarding about tracking down a treasure on Ali Express or DH Gate that looks close enough to the genuine article for $50 that one simply can’t be found when ordering one of the master-class Reptime watches. Sure, one day I’ll have an ARF* or Noob Submariner that would fool my Rolex rep, but for now my U1 Submariner fools my Uber driver and parole officer, and for now that’s good enough for me. Oh, it keeps good time, too, which is nice.

Getting started

If you’re here to learn more about this world, then that’s great, because this interest in cheap rep watches that you have may turn into a hobby, which may then turn into an obsession. I’ve made friends on this subreddit because that’s what like-minded people do when they all become fans of the same thing, and we’re happy you’ve decided to learn more with us.

Automatic vs Quartz

To get started it helps to know a bit about watches themselves, besides how they look. Most of the watches we talk about in this subreddit are what are referred to “automatic” watches. Most watches in the world are quartz, but for the most part they don’t carry much weight here, because most of the watches we’re interested in the fake-versions-of are automatics, not quartz. This is because quartz watches can literally be found in vending machines, but automatic watches have a degree of engineering and craftsmanship to them, even the cheapest of them. Also, most of the Swiss shit we can’t afford are autos, as well.

An automatic watch is simply one that is wound by the person wearing the watch simply doing their shit. There’s no battery; instead there is a rotor that is connected to the mainspring of the watch. As the wearer does whatever the fuck it is they do all day, their movement moves the rotor, which acts as a pendulum, which winds the watch, and then it tells the user what time it is so they can get home in time to catch their wife in bed with their boss. These are the important matters we deal with.

Not all the watches we deal with here are autos, but the vast majority of them are. Quartz units are generally relegated to the chronograph copies (which means “watches that are also stopwatches that you’ll never actually use”), though there are a few non-chrono quartzes peppered here and there, but not many.

The Rotor & Movement

The rotor of an automatic watch is mounted on what’s called the movement of the watch. The movement is not the sweep of the seconds hand but rather the name for the guts of the watch itself — the gears, the springs, the cogs, and everything else that makes a watch keep time. It is arguably the most important part of a watch to consider when making buying choices, so knowing a few basics can really help you to make the right choice when it comes time to buy your first watch.

For example, a large percentage of the watches on Chinatime will be built around a fairly generic movement called the 2813. The 2813 is a Chinese clone of the Japanese Miyota 8205/8215 movement, which is to be found in a number of Citizen brand watches, as well as high-end Invicta divers and many, many more. The Miyota is a well-respected and sturdy movement, but the 2813 clones not so much. The most famous of these clones is the DG2813, though the rest are made by several factories in China. Because of this the quality varies from movement to movements and thus watch to watch, since there’s very little in the way of quality control when the Chinese factories make our watches for us. This is part of why they’re so cheap, and really part of the fun and charm.

Fun fact! There is an ETA2813 that is an actual Swiss movement, and the Chinese 2813 (often called a2813 where “a” means “Asia”) may have started life as a clone of it, but it’s a Miyota clone now, so there we go.

So now you know what a movement is and why it’s important, but that’s not what you’re here to find. You’re here to find some timepiece that will act as either a panty-moistener or pants-tightener when you wear it around your town/school/cellblock/institution, and most people don’t care about the movement.

Finding the watch you want (or ‘W2C’ aka Want To Cop/obtain)

You probably instead already have a model of watch in mind that you’d like to find a cheap rep for, and there’s a really good chance that there’s at least some Chinatime-budget version out there for you. It’s just a matter of finding it, and that is where this subreddit shines, because chances are that some other cheap fuck had the exact same idea as you, and since so many of our users share their triumphs with the rest of us there’s a good chance you’re watch is linked to in one of the posts already here. I know most subreddits have a “search it first” mantra, and that’s because that shit works, so use it.

If your watch has been found and purchased before, and the users reported back here (which they should do, more on that later), then you can usually find in their post or comment a link to the watch they bought under the label of “W2C”, which stands for “Want to cop”, which is a weird phrase brought over from Chinatime’s big dickhead brother Reptime. Cop or w2c means to “get your hands on” and “want to” is something none of Harvey Weinstein’s victims ever said.

Using DHGate

So you find the watch, find the W2C link, and then you’ll be taken to a place to buy the watch. Usually that place will be DHGate, (or The Gate,) a Chinese website that’s sort of a second home for us here. That’s because The Gate has about a thousand vendors selling about a couple hundred (at least) different rep watches at a variety of price points, meaning that you’ll probably be able to find your watch there at the price you want.

DHGate is hard to navigate for most of us because it’s a Chinese website in English and they do a very poor job of quality control when it comes to organization of products. This may be on purpose — selling fake versions of real watches violates international law, and by not making it easy to find a particular watch they get a bit of reasonable deniability when questioned by the authorities. But with some practice, patience, help from here, and luck, you’ll be able to find what you’re looking for.

Fun fact! Buying replicas of real watches for a fraction of the price is understandably illegal in most countries, so all of us here are, technically, taking part in a huge act of fraud and/or larceny, you newly-minted criminal you. The good news is that Customs in most countries are far too busy with actual problems to really care about what we do here, so don’t sweat the whole petty felony thing too much.

So you’ve got your watch in mind, you’ve searched for the W2Cs on here and found a few, and even checked out the links on The Gate, which is awesome, because that means I’m doing a good job here. The next logical step is choosing which rep watch to get, and this is where things can get a bit tricky — not to mention sketchy.

This may surprise some of our more sensitive newcomers, but it has to be said: Not all of the vendors on sites like DHGate can be trusted! In fact, it’s best to assume that most of them are out to scam you, because it’s very easy to scam someone on the Internet from a completely different hemisphere, and it happens all the fucking time. But you don’t want it to happen to you, and neither do we, so this next part is for you: Do your fucking research.

Also, use our guide of trusted sellers.

There are a few vendors that we like to go to again and again (more on them later) because they are simply good to work with. Some of them might be a couple bucks more expensive here and there but it’s made up for with customer service and not getting your credit card charged for $2500 in the middle of the night in Hunan Province.

Navigate & Communicate on the ‘Gate

It’s worth noting that in Chinese culture there is (traditionally speaking) no such thing as “customer service”. Our western notion of sales customs, where the vendor caters to the customer, is not universal, and certainly not the norm in parts of Asia. This is an important thing to keep in mind, as things don’t always go smooth, and acting like a total Karen will get your messages blocked and you’ll never get a resolution. Always be respectful (but not a sucker) and things will go a lot smoother.

When looking over the different offerings from the different vendors, the two most important things you can do are:

• Ask us for advice, such as “has anyone else here ever dealt with ‘TittyBobbyJill20000057’?

• Check the customer reviews on the product you’re looking at!

As noted before, there are a lot of independent vendors on The Gate and the other sites, and chances are you’re not the first person looking for your particular watch, so learn from the mistakes and successes of those who came before you. Feel free to ask anyone here, and always — always! — check the customer reviews, especially if they have photos.

Fun fact! There are a few search terms you can use to find the watch you want since you generally can’t find them via their actual brand names because that just becomes blatant counterfeiting, and we can’t have that. For Omegas, search for “co-axial”; for Rolex, search for the model number; for Tag Heuer sports watches, search for “I have no taste in anything and will die alone”. Try it out yourself!

This is because very often the photos of the watch you see on the DHGate listing is not a photo of the actual watch you’ll be receiving. Often it’s the genuine (or “gen”) article in the photos, presumably to help shoppers find what they want. They will often have pictures of the actual units they sell mixed in, so check those, but make sure to check for photos of received units in the reviews, as these are unfiltered and unmoderated feedback directly from and to customers like you. It’s a great tool that will save everyone a lot of grief and headache if used correctly.

Asking for Quality Check (QC) Photos

In addition, reputable vendors are often happy to send you photos of the actual watches themselves if there are none in the reviews. Add to that the fact that we love doing our own reviews here, and you’ll be in good shape to buy the watch you want from a trusted seller and be very happy with it.

This, though, is where things get tricky. Since sites like DHGate and AliExpress are in China, not every bank or credit card vendor will work to place your order, so make sure that you have at least two different accounts to try from. In addition, keep in mind that there are sophisticated hacker-bros in China that would love nothing more than have access to a foreign credit card that works in their country easily. For my own purchases, I use my CapitalOne credit card via their Eno system which generates a one time “burner number” for each of my transactions. See if your cards or bank offer the same kind of thing if at all possible.

If you’ve found your watch, and you’ve found your vendor, and made your purchase, then you should have your watch — sometime in the distant future.

Shipping from China

Cheap quality watches are cheap by skimping on a few things, and one of those things is fast shipping. Most watches include free shipping, (via China’s EMS or ePacket services,) but that free shipping can take a long fucking time. It’s not uncommon for watches to take a month and a half to arrive, so if you’re in a hurry to get something for a certain event, like a court date, use one of the paid services (DHL, etc.) to get it faster. But keep in mind that you still might be in for a wait, because that’s how things in China work.

Some sellers are faster than others, and your research here should tell you which are known for fast shipments, so it’s worth taking into consideration when making your choice.

Customs & Replica Watches

Sometimes, though, things happen, and it’s far too common for things to go wrong on the shipment part.

Fun fact! Chinese people are a lot like you, only way more broke and oppressed. The average person there makes about $15k a year. The few bucks they make off of selling fake watches to the rest of the world is real money to them, so if things go wacky don’t automatically assume that you’re being scammed, just be aware that they’ll also do anything they can to not have to issue a refund, so be willing to work with them.

If your watch gets seized by customs then you’ll get a letter. Ignore it, tell your vendor, and they’ll generally send you a new one. This kind of thing is factored into their prices as the cost of doing business.

If your tracking number shows your watch going somewhere far away that’s not you, there are a few reasons why this can happen. If you’re shipping with DHL you should know that they often recycle waybill numbers (I’m not kidding, it just happened to me). It’s also possible the vendor just mixed up your tracking number with someone else’s, which is also common. Or, also too common, your vendor is trying to scam you. Do not let them off the hook.

Every case is different, so we won’t attempt to tackle a “how to” on dealing with problems like this on sites like The Gate, but enough people here have been through it that they’ll be happy to help you navigate it, since we hate when those fuckers try stuff on any of us.

Receiving Your New Watch

So let’s say you’ve managed to not fuck up all of the above. That means that your watch has arrived and you’re stoked, and you should be! The process isn’t the easiest, but the reward is worth it.

Wear your watch. Get to know it. Maybe you’ll need to re-size the bracelet (we can help walk you through that) or something’s wrong with it (that, too), or maybe you need to brag to some people (that would be us). That is why we do ask that you share it with us. (Don’t forget the lume shot!)

Take photos, videos, post a review, post a W2C link, and answer any questions others may have, because you were only successful because others pass on their knowledge to you, and it would be good to show the other newcomers how it works. It’s part of what makes this subreddit more than just a place to get links and instead a place that’s genuinely fun to waste time on.

We’re glad you’ve decided to take the morally ambiguous step towards becoming a Chinatime bro or bro-ette (for there are more rep-ladies here than one might think) and welcome you to the world of like-minded cheapskates who would still like to enjoy build quality and the classical aesthetics that go along with world class timepieces.

Choosing a Recommended Seller or Trusted Dealer

Recommended Sellers and Trusted Dealers are listed above.

Remember, TD’s do not make the watches! They are simply the middle men between you and the Factory (VSF for example). Mostly, the TD’s do not have physical contact with the factories or watches, they simply order them, then a courier will drop off a bulk order to them. Then the TD will issue QC photos.

Please do not think they walk to the factory to buy your watch and collect it, it’s not how it goes. This is also how delays in QC’s happen, as a TD could be waiting for a batch of a certain watch to be made, thus, delaying your QC. Some TD’s will have 24 hour QC stock on hand, which you can ask for a list of. Usually however this is previously RL stock or something they have bought in bulk to offer as discounted.

Trusted dealers have earned their way to that status – trusted – because they have a large customer base and are willing to go through investigations through the forums that have a tough and active moderation team (RWI, RWG, etc) if a sale goes awry.

Trusted dealers get not a ton of dough from your sale, but they almost all offer a customs guarantee – you will receive a replacement watch for free if customs seizes it. Be nice and remember that they are doing work for you and should be compensated for that time.

2. Choosing Your Watch and/or Factory

A mid to high tier watch is built by a specific factory. Examples will be: CF, VSF, ZF, BP, GMF, EWF to name a few.

There are also watches that are classed as Not Worth Buying In Gen (NWBIG).

All reps have tells. There is no perfect rep, so RESEARCH first and decide on which flaws you can live with.

3. Purchasing a Watch

Now that you have decided on the watch you want, it’s time to buy. There are typically three ways to buy. I will list in the order I believe to be the easiest, and how to go about it. I will also give a mock example where applicable. Be aware it is always common practice to check the factory still exists and are still making the watch you require. This to a TD is referred to as “In Stock”.

Option1. WhatsApp (or WeChat etc)

Find the correct WhatsApp number for your chosen TD. (The TD links have already been listed in section 1). Message the TD:

(You) Hi, can you source me a (VSF 116610LN) please, are they in stock at the factory still? How long for QC and how much ? Thanks.

Now, there are such things as time zones, so if you don’t hear back from the TD in ten mins or so, consider they may be sound asleep. Allow anything up to 12 hours for a reply. Some Td’s have massive inbox queues and it could take 24 hours to receive a reply during busy times. The Td will then reply for example:

(TD) Hi, $568 free shipping. In stock 3 day QC.

It’s as easy as that, next you will need to issue payment (see section 4) and give your Name and Postal address. The TD may require an email address to send your QC link to, Some send the QC and deal solely on whatsapp.

Option 2. Purchasing via TD’s website.

It is imperative you email the TD before you go this route to check the watch is still being produced. A lot of watches on websites are no longer available as they barely maintain their websites by removing old stock. It is also a great way of taking your money and getting you to switch to something else.

You’ll have to make an account on the website and/or fill out your details, then, once you have checked out, the TD will contact you for payment (see Section 4). Do not upload any credit/debit card details if asked. Email is a slow process and it could take 3 days to receive payment details. Some Td’s only use email, so this is one of the pitfalls of going this route, especially if you encounter a problem once you receive the watch. QC will likely take longer and in general be a slower process than whatsapp. You Have Been Warned!

Option 3. Direct Email/DM via forum.

Some TD’s (Sead from supermirrors for example) are only contactable this way. They will list their current stock on their forum page. You will then have to DM or Email them your requirements the same way as mentioned in option 1. This is another reasonably slow process.

You can simply send a photo of a watch you are after to a TD and they will tell you if it can be sourced.

Option 4. Direct from DHGate

Platforms like DHGate have a payment facility which includes a dispute system and more. More details here.

4. Payment

Most TD’s will help guide you through the payment process. Here are some of the ways you can pay.

Wise or Western Union

Easiest way?: install the respective apps or visit the official website, create an account and enter the details provided by the TD. Then issue your payment. Best exchange rate is via Wise and it is easy to use. You can even link the TD’s confirmed payment via whatsapp with Wise. Guides on how to use both are on their respe websites.

Paypal F&F

Some, if not most will require previous transaction history before they dabble in Paypal with you. Some like Mirotime and Geektime usually accept payments this way first off.

Crypto

Obviously if you pay this way you’ll be sending your crypto to a TD’s wallet. You’ll probably have knowledge on how to use wallets etc. Be sure to record/track the transaction via the blockchain.

4. Credit/Debit card

I would advise against paying via credit/debit card UNLESS you are using a one time use created card number. Many CC company’s will provide this. Remember you are dealing in a counterfeit organization ran predominantly (in the eyes of the law) by criminals. Your TD may be Trusted but the third party they use to take payment may not be. Don’t risk being cloned or charged for other fee’s.

5. QC (Quality Control)

QC photos can take anything from a matter of hours to weeks. It’s all dependent on the watch you bought and if the factory are producing batches. Sometime a TD will have stock in hand. Raids, public holidays and batch times can effect the waiting times. If you haven’t received QC within 2 weeks ask your TD for an update. It’s down to your resolve on if you want to swap to an available watch or require a refund.

Once QC photos are received you should generally get good help over at r/RepTimeQC if you follow the template used there. I would advise to look up previous posts of the watch you ordered to grasp the common QC issues that can arise. Do not be lazy and write “looks good” for everything..

6. Shipping

It can take anything from a week to 2 months to receive a package depending on where you are on the planet. 17Track is a good app to use for keeping an eye on your parcel. Most TD’s have a customs seizure warranty and will replace any watch taken by customs. If this happens, do not reply to the letter you receive and contact your TD. The consensus is just wait it out, it will get there eventually.

7. Receipt of Package/Watch

1. Remember you have bought a rep made in a low wage factory. The finish may have sharp edges and will need the bracelet adjusting. Buy a decent bracelet removal tool and screwdriver to undo the bracelet screws! Do this the day after you order your watch! There is nothing worse than making a mess of them with some cheap garbage you got from an xmas cracker.
2. Movement. Now, although replica movements have improved vastly in the past few years, you cannot expect it to be running at +/- 2 secs a day accuracy unless it has been Serviced and properly regulated! Running a non serviced replica is fine, but if its running +30secs a day fast or slow when you receive it, then it’s actually acceptable. Yes, your Seiko or homage shitter may be more accurate, but it was assembled in much cleaner conditions, correctly oiled, and assembled in a gen watch factory. If you want it reliable and to last a good length of time r/RepTimeServices is where to go. Or go to RWI etc, to get a service done, this will prolong the life of your replica. When setting dates, forward your hour hands first, so the date changes, then move to 6 o’clock. Now change your date. Automatic watches can be hand wound, so google “how to hand wind an automatic watch”
3. Water Resistance. Assume your watch is not water resistant, and get it tested. It is your choice if you want to ride bareback into the waters. Do check the case back for tightness and the crown is screwed in tightly. If it fills with water, or condensates, just vision me saying, “It’s over, I have the high ground”. Or you can build you own tester. here.

Other notes:

1. Enjoy the watch. Get a $20 watch service kit from Amazon or whatever and resize the bracelet.
2. DON’T TAKE IT TO A JEWELER AND PRETEND IT’S THE REAL THING. They will lie to your face and make you think they think it’s real because its good customer service to make people feel good about themselves. They are trained to do that. Just some practical advice – take it or leave it – don’t tell your friends and loved ones that these are the real thing. It’s better to be honest. If you want to know the full reason, PM me, I’m happy to share why honesty is important.
3. What if your watch is broken upon arrival? You MUST make a log in on the forums where the dealer is a trusted dealer, and post enough there in order to log a ticket to file a dispute. They will not help you if you create an account after your issue arises with a TD. It is their rules. Source

AD: Authorized Dealer who sells genuine watches.

AP: Audemars Piquet.

AR: Anti-Reflective coating. It is a coating that is placed on watch crystals to deflect glare. Can be single or double sided. Double AR can scratch as one layer is on the outside of the crystal.

B&R: Bell & Ross.

BCE: Short for Breitling Chronomat Evolution.

Beginmariner: An entry level Submariner. Referred to by other names such as Noobmariner and VIPmariner.

Bling: A watch encrusted with diamonds or jewels.

Breit: Short for Breitling.

BST: Buy, Sell & Trade

Builder: A Watchsmith or Watchmaker who builds watches from the ground up.

Bump: The process of bumping a thread back to the top of the new posts section because the poster feels it contains information they want others to see.

C1: A model of Concord watch.

CC: Credit Card.

CG: Crown Guard.

CN: Short for China or Chinese.

CNY: Chinese currency or Chinese New Year.

CONUS: Continental United States (See IN CONUS).

DD: Rolex Day Date

DHL: A shipper often used by the dealers.

DJ: Rolex Datejust

DRSD: Rolex Double Red Sea-Dweller

DW: Datewheel.

EMS: Express Mail Service. They are the usual courier for packages.

ETA: A Swiss movement used in watches. Also available as a China made clone. Gen (Swiss) ETAs are now very rare in reps.

Fakebreaking: A phenomenon wherein rep buyers constantly break certain models of watches. Even if the movements in those watches are commonly used in gens with no issues. This is caused by a failure to understand the limitations of a mechanical timepiece in general. Gen owners are usually not afflicted by this. An example would be the Rolex Daytona. (See Seconds @6).

Fedex: A package delivery service. NEVER USE THEM FOR REPS!

Fiddy: Panerai 127

Fidestro: Panerai 217

FM: Abbreviation for Franck Muller

Franken: A watch that has had genuine parts added to it in order to make it closer to the genuine counterpart.

Gen: Short for genuine watch.

Group Buy: A forum-wide mass buy where items can be purchased at a discounted price.

GBP: British Pound.

HBB: Hublot Big Bang.

HVS: High Value Sale.

Black Magic: An all black Hublot Big Bang.

IMO: In my opinion.

IN CONUS: A designation when something or someone is in the Continental United States. Also a designation in sales ads when someone will only ship within that area (See CONUS).

IWC: International Watch Company.

Lume: The material applied to a watch dial that makes it glow in the dark.

LV: Abbreviation for the Rolex anniversary LV (Lunette Verde) Submariner. Also used to describe Louis Vuitton.

Modded: A watch that has been altered from it’s OEM state.

Mods: Customisations applied to a watch.

Modder: Someone who performs aftermarket modifications to timepieces.

MOP: Short for Mother of Pearl dial.

NWBIG: Stands for ‘Not Worth Buying In Genuine’. A watch with a replica so good there is no point paying the real counterpart.

OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer.

OP: Original poster.

PAM: Panerai.

PO: Short for Omega Planet Ocean.

POS: Piece of shit.

PP: PayPal. Also an abbreviation for Patek Philippe.

PVD: Physical Vapor Deposition. A particle vacuum coating process used on watches.

QC: Quality Control, Usually refers to the photos sent by a dealer to approve the watch you will be receiving.

Rehaut: The metal ring between the crystal and dial on a watch.

Rep: Short for replica.

RG/Repgeek: A replica forum.

Rollercoasting: When a watch hand has not been installed level. As it spins it moves up and down vertically like a rollercoaster and at some point touches the inside of the crystal jacking everything up.

Rollie: Rolex.

ROO: A model made by Audemar Piquet, the Royal Oak Offshore.

RWG.CC: A replica forum.

RWG.BZ: Our sister forum, often referred to as “The wild west of rep fora”

RWI: A forum full of autistic and rude old fucks that think elitism about fake watches is cool.

SEL: Solid End Link. A type of bracelet end link (the bit that joins the bracelet to the watch).

Slevin: Nickname for the IWC Aquatimer.

SMP: Short for Omega Seamaster Professional.

SOH: Breitling Superocen Heritage

SOSF: Short for Superocean Steelfish. It is not SFSO, SSFO, SOF or SF .

SV: Supporting Vendor. A Type of dealer.

Tag: Tag Heuer.

TNT: Another delivery service used by the dealers. Generally for air shipment.

Trustytime ’aka Andrew’: a dealer.

UN: Ulysses Nardin.

UPO: Short for Ultimate Omega Planet Ocean.

UPS: United Parcel Service.

USPS: United States Postal Service

V1/V2/V3/V20????: A term applied to each new version of the previously described ‘Ultimate/1:1/Exact copy’ that was released even though it was already perfect.

VC: Vacheron Constantin

W2B/WTB: Want To Buy aka Where can I find this watch so I can buy it.

W2C: Want To Cop aka Where can I find this watch so I can buy it.

Watch Expert: Someone who has extensive knowledge about timepieces. They are often also a Watchsmith, Watchmaker or Modder (See Builder & Modder).

WU: Western Union. Also ‘Wu’ which is short for the watch dealer WuWatch.

Yachtie: Short for Rolex Yachtmaster.

Q: I see the watches on DHGate, but they’re missing the logos. Will the watch I get have the logo?

A: Unless otherwise stated in the listing, you bet. The reason that they don’t show the logo in most of the photos is because by not showing them then they have plausible deniability when the authorities come knocking on their door, which happens from time to time. Without the logo, they’re selling “homages”, which is fine. If a logo accidentally falls off the back of a truck and ends up on your faux Patek, then, ya know, oops and shit.

Q: I want to buy something cheap to start with to get used to things. What’s the best watch I can get for $XXX?

A: As stated above, nearly every watch has multiple grades available from different vendors. The Rolex Submariner is probably the most-replicated watch in the world, being that it’s such an iconic status symbol all over the globe. On DHGate you can find them for as little as $12 for a half-plastic quartz shitter, all the way up to $700 clones that are almost completely identical in every way to the original. Not all watches have good cheap versions, but some do. Omega’s Planet Oceans and Seamaster 300s have both inspired rather cheap reps in the $26-32 range that are surprisingly good for the money and make great choices for first-time buyers. (I still wear my $28 Planet Ocean on the regular because it’s a really great watch, period.)

Q: Why r/Chinatime? Why not just merge with r/Reptime?

A: For the most part, Chinatime deals with watches in the $30-$120 area, and anything above that goes to the snobby dudes over in Reptime (JK, fellow rep-bros! Love you too!). Their focus is far more on the complete replications and 1:1 cloning of watches, and some of that shit is fascinating. Expensive, sure, but fascinating.

Since most (but by no means all) ChinaTime reps aren’t in that neighbourhood of sophistication this subreddit was spun off to be its own thing. That said, I’d be surprised if more than ten percent of the people subscribed to ChinaTime aren’t also subscribed to RepTime.

Q: Am I going to go to jail?

A: Not for this, but probably for that other stuff. You need to learn how to delete your browser history.

Q: Shut the fuck up and tell me where I can find a XXX!

A: First off, fuck you. Second off, no, I won’t, but u/SvB78 made this fantastic set of entries that should get you started because he’s a great guy like that. Or girl. It’s the Internet and I don’t want to make any assumptions here.

Q: Did Epstein kill himself?

A: Nope.

Q: How long will my cheap fake watch last?

A: That’s a great question and one that could be a whole post this long on its own. In short, it depends, which I know is not a satisfying answer. There are a couple things to consider, namely “what movement is it?” and “was it put together well?”

If you’re rocking a 2813-based model, it can be a crap shoot. I’ve had three U1 Submariners. My first one broke (my fault) so I ordered a second. It froze after a week. I ordered a third and it’s sturdy like a well-trained horse and should last awhile. These all use the 2813 movement mentioned above.

I also have an Omega Seamaster 300 Spectre clone that I got on the cheap that has a Tongji (or Chinese “unified”) movement, one of the most bare-bones and cheap mechanical movements out there, and it’s not missed a beat in nearly a year. (This watch is a good watch, but a bad, bad rep.)

So, again, there’s no easy answer for your question. Your best bet is to ask your fellow ChinaTimers here.

Q: I can’t seem to find the watch I want. What do?

A: If you have a vendor you like then feel free to message them and ask if they can find it for you. It’s not hyperbole to say that every popular luxury watch on the market right now likely has a rep available, so feel free to ask.

Q: So do I now know everything I need to know to ChinaTime right?

A: You know enough to get started, and thanks for using ChinaTime like a verb. That was cute.

There’s more than can be found from RepTime, though how much of it is applicable to ChinaTime is up for debate.

Q: Will I be a fraud if I walk around with a fake-ass Rolex or Patek on my wrist?

A: Yeah, but you’ll be a dope-looking fraud, so who cares?

As a general tip, keep your luxury within reason. It would make sense for a person with a half-way decent job to afford an Omega Seamaster or a Longines, but if you’re attending community college and sporting an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore then you’d best believe that you’re going to need a really fantastic explanation for how you got it, which may need to include a whole backstory that involves cocaine, hookers, a crime spree, an unfortunate night at a Thai brothel, cocaine, a stolen pickup, a Canadian gigalo that goes by “Mr. Mountie”, and cocaine.

Q: Can I get a watch from China and sell it to my local pawn shop/on craiglist/to my idiot brother/anyone else?

A: You might be able to pass it off to someone else as the real thing to make money, but that would be a total dick move. We may be breaking international law here in ChinaTime, but we’re not fucking assholes.

Q: WTF is a [insert unknown watch term]?

A: This Q&A isn’t exhaustive, and there is a lot to know in the world of watches. I recommend spending some time in r/watches as well as r/reptime, but if I were you I’d be careful about even speaking about r/chinatime in r/watches, as I got banned for a week for doing that, because those guys are fucking touchy.

Q: I just got my first XXX! It looks great! I’m going to go to r/XXX and show it off!

A: Don’t get cute. If you have even the best Submariner you can get from the ranks of ChinaTime and try to show it off on r/Rolex then you’ll be banned faster than the Astros can cheat at baseball, and you’ll also bring unwanted attention onto our own little cheap-and-shiesty corner of the internet. Don’t do that shit.

Q: Can I buy a used watch from one of you dudes who seem to know what you’re doing?

A: Sure! We offer trades and sales here often, and “I’d like to buy a used XXX” aren’t uncommon, but chances are someone will have something you want that’s maybe even been improved, so feel it out.

Q: Wait, improved? You can make these less-sucky?

A: Absolutely. Do yourself a favor and get a basic watch repair kit from Amazon for like $15. You can use the tools for basic maintenance — such as resizing the bracelet or regulating the balance wheel. You can also use it if your 2813 breaks down and you’d rather replace it than buy a new one. It’s not that hard with the help of youtube.

Q: I tried to regulate it and I broke it! Fuck you!

A: It’s not my fault you’re a butterfingers. Order another $50 watch, you cheap-but-classy bastard.

Guide to Taobao
by u/kolt54321

Taobao is a website similar to eBay, DHgate, or AliExpress – but completely in Chinese. They don’t have too many cheaper built watches, but a plethora of replica clothes and, most importantly, watch parts.

For anyone people who want to buy a submariner rep, Wu and Jason are good (overpriced, but good) choices. But what if you have just a little bit of class, and want to try your hand at building your own watch? How about swapping a dial, or upgrading a 2813/21j movement to something like a Miyota 8215/Seagull ST16? What if r/SeikoMods is your spirit animal, but don’t want to dish out $300 for your watches or $10 for an extra set of hands?

Enter Taobao

I mean, let’s get it straight. The website can be a pain to use. Google Translate only gets you so far before you had enough of “new Baby” and “more Baby”. And there is no shipping option to the US.

So how do you ship to the US?

If you’re new to Taobao… it can be counterintuitive. You need an agent – a separate company who ships your items for you from their warehouse in China, to your address. And I’m really not a good person to ask questions to about this (let’s make believe I have no idea). All I’ll say is take a look – Wegobuy is a trusted agent over at FashionReps, and the guide linked above will get you through how to use them.

So, Cons:

• Not intuitive

• Not Wu or Jason

• WGB’s currency rates aren’t the best. Look on that sub for freight forwarders if you’re brave enough.

• Shipping can be expensive – watches aren’t inherently heavy, but to the US, it can be $25 for a single KG (think maybe 3 watches, more in parts if you omit the SS bracelets).

But, as for pros… there are prices here you wouldn’t imagine. Full 2813 or NH35 stainless steel cases for $7, dials and dials for under $3, and swarms of full sets of hands for $1 each. Working 2813’s for $6, NH35’s for $20, ST16’s for $13 or less.

Ever wanted a Wave of Kanagawa or Van Gogh watch build? How about a meteorite or mother of pearl watch face? Try getting that on eBay.

“Yeah, but how do I find this stuff?”

Hey look, a list!

Flaw: A difference between a replica in its attempt to imitate the genuine watch (e.g. incorrect hand stack on a GMF BLRO Pepsi)

Defect: An error during manufacturing or assembly that deviates from the specified requirements (e.g. crooked indices on an ARF 114300)

Okay, now that we’ve got that out of the way, in order to understand what QC is, let’s start with what the QC process isn’t.

The QC process is not:

• To compare how close the replica is to genuine
• Window shopping
• An opportunity to correct specific flaws or defects on a replica

QC is not an opportunity to compare how close the replica is to genuine

This should take place before QC during the research about which model to buy. All replicas have flaws. “Super reps” have flaws from genuine. Even genuine watches have flaws! It’s your responsibility as the purchaser to do your due diligence and find watch models from factories that have flaws that are tolerable to you. You should become intimately aware of the flaws of the models you are considering. The forums and this subreddit contain many images of actual watches people receive.

Use the search bar and get well acquainted with the model you plan on purchasing. This way when your QC pictures arrive you aren’t startled when the date font is too bold – looking at you ARF 126334, or some other well-known flaw compared to genuine. If you’re looking for near perfect, buy genuine. Buying a replica watch is a fun experience. Let it be.

QC is not window shopping

Trusted Dealers are running a business. Side note: I’m not exactly sure how the logistics of their business functions, but if a TD or other more knowledgeable person wants to chime in below it would be a happy learning experience for me and everyone else. The remainder of this entry will go on my assumptions as to how the business functions.

TD’s buy replica watches from the factories. They pay for the replicas out of the money you paid them for your order. This is why payment precedes QC pictures. Now they have invested in inventory that needs to be sold. Some inventory moves quicker than others due to popularity (SS 116610LN, AP ROO, etc.) so they probably have a continuous flow of demand for some of these watches, but they don’t really “stock” watches in a traditional sense and definitely not for less popular models.

They source each watch you order individually. When you decide to RL a watch you’re preventing them from selling stock that they’ve already used capital to purchase. Essentially, you’re frustrating their cash flow. They’re now stuck with a watch they need to wait for someone else to order before they can make their money back. This makes it difficult on the TD, harms their business, and may result in the TD refusing to sell you a different watch.

They also have to go and source another watch for you (consuming more capital and eating into their margin). It is my understanding that sometimes they can return a watch to the factories if it is defective, but this is where my knowledge of the business isn’t clear. Regardless, the best-case scenario for TD’s is returning a watch and spending a lot of time and effort sourcing another watch instead of fulfilling a new order (opportunity cost), and the worst case is being stuck with a watch that has nothing wrong with it and having to wait for a new order before getting paid for it. That’s a lose-lose scenario for the TD.

What is important to remember here is that the factories and TD’s aren’t in the best conditions, nor are they participating in legal activities and are under constant scrutiny from their respective governments and law enforcement agencies. Replica watch “factories” aren’t large buildings with assembly lines.

Typically they are small operations that can be easily moved or hidden from police/governments hunting for them. Factories and TD’s have a lot at stake doing business with us and we should ensure we properly acknowledge that and use their conditions as the context for how a replica watch gets in QC pictures. It’s quite a marvel all things considered. Caveat: I am well aware that TD’s sometimes try to hide very obvious manufacturing defects to move undesirable inventory, we’ll cover that more below. Be patient.

I’m not saying to never RL a watch. There are good reasons to do so that we’ll discuss below. I am saying that you should carefully consider the defect on the watch you are presented and decide for yourself if you can live with them. Remember that the images you’re seeing are close up of an object whose size is measured in millimeters. Many defects can’t be seen at wrist level or without close inspection. There is a good reason to carefully consider the decision to RL. QC is not a carousel of watches, rather it’s like a slot machine or a game of Russian roulette because the next one the TD can procure could have worse defects than the watch you RL’d.

I’ve never tried this, but If you RL the watch in your QC pictures I don’t think the TD will sell it to you if the RL’d watch ends up being better than the following watch. So there’s a risk with RL’ing. Keep in mind that manufacturing happens in batches and there is a chance that most of a batch has similar defects. You never know what you’re going to get. Think slot machine, not carousel. That’s part of the fun! Sometimes you hit it big and your rep doesn’t have any serious defects and looks flawless. Other times you’ve gotta swing the RL hammer, but only if absolutely necessary.

This segues well into our next topic.

QC is not an opportunity to correct specific flaws or defects on a replica

I see a lot of new people have a misunderstanding when reviewing their QC pictures that if they ask the TD to correct a specific flaw that it will be corrected. This is not the case. You either accept the watch presented or you RL and are presented with an entirely new watch. They can’t realign indices or center dates in a date window. Nor should they. Their business is simple: source the “genuine” replica watch you request and ensure it is shipped and delivered to you.

That’s it.

They make money sourcing and shipping watches. TD’s exist to protect us from a veritable ocean of scam sites that sell us DHgate watches for thousands of dollars. Buying through a TD means the watch you receive will be made by Noob, ARF, V6F, etc. and that you will receive it despite customs seizures.

They are not watch smiths.

They are not watchmakers.

They are not jewelers.

They are dealers.

Dealers that are trusted because they have a multitude of historical transactions and a reputation that they will deliver “authentic” replica watches from the factories they advertise.

Okay. Now that we’ve cleared up some common misconceptions with QC pictures, where did the concept come from? After doing some digging on RWI, the concept of QC photos was first introduced around 2009 by a previous TD that, from what I can tell, has since ceased operations. QC photos are an inconvenience for the dealer and replicas used to be sent without QC photos; however, in the years following their introduction we have become accustomed to them and now expect them. It benefits TD’s by giving customers a unique experience, for example, PureTime does waterproof testing in addition to photos.

That’s a bit of competitive differentiation in customer experience if waterproofing is of interest to you. It can also help the TD’s to avert negative interactions with their customers by allowing us to see what we will be receiving before actually receiving it. This practice is unlike any other eCommerce practice and I can’t think of another online transaction where I get a preview of the literal unit I will receive before buying except maybe automobiles. And even then, sometimes not. Hopefully, this helps you to understand that we should be grateful we receive QC pictures at all and to give credit where credit is due with the TD’s. There aren’t other eCommerce businesses that operate this way.

What is the purpose of QC? QC Photos are:

• To ensure you will be receiving the correct factory and model of watch ordered
• To find clear defects that do not meet your subjective standard

QC is to ensure you will be receiving the correct factory and model of watch ordered

This is important! If you ordered a ZZF 116610LN V2 it is important that you receive that model from that factory and not a Noob or ARF 116610LN because it will be difficult to make an exchange or other remediations due to the logistical nightmare that is the international business of counterfeit goods. You want the right watch delivered the first time. Sometimes there are mix-ups or errors and I suppose there could be a more nefarious motive, but that has never been my experience and would certainly be a huge outlier. TD’s are trusted for a reason.

That doesn’t make them perfect or free from making clerical errors given their working conditions and language barriers. If you aren’t sure you are receiving the correct model or factory, post it and ask! We love to help. If you ordered an ARF 116500 Panda, but are shown an ARF 116520 white dial, you’ll know to ask the TD to please present you with the correct model you requested. Please be courteous and respectful. I’m sure they’ll be happy to do so. Remember they still must go and return the incorrect watch if they can and go source the correct watch. Be patient.

QC is to find clear defects that do not meet your subjective standard

This is a tricky topic to address. You are looking to identify defects with the replica that aren’t up to your standard. You should be looking for things like crooked indices, alignment of bezel or dial elements like coronets or logos, missing lume, offset chrono hands, and other defects. Also check to see if there are any visible signs of cosmetic damage like scratches, scuffs, etc. on the case, bracelet, clasp, and other watch components.

Be aware that TD’s are dealers or salesmen. They want to sell watches, even ones with severe defects. I’ve seen TD’s move the watch hands to cover a crooked logo or hold the watch at strange angles to make alignment defects look less severe. You can request additional pictures with watch hands in different positions. You can ask for a straight-on photo. This is acceptable and should be done if you have suspicions. Be prepared to wait for additional pictures though. There shouldn’t be obstacles to you being able to see defects, but once you’ve identified defects what do you do then?

Now, here is the difficult part. What should you RL and what should you live with? For me, I air on the side of GL all the time. This means I look at QC pictures with the intent of GL’ing and then have to find something outlandish to shift my opinion. Excessive RL’ing can harm the livelihood of the TD’s and ultimately affect the price of replicas in general. I also have a realistic idea of the standard of quality I should expect from a replica before I place my order.

For a first time or inexperienced buyer, this may not be the case, especially if they haven’t done enough due diligence on the model they’re purchasing.

What do I RL? Indices that are egregiously crooked, date wheels that are excessively off-center making them difficult to read, etc. Essentially anything that will bother me to the point of not wearing the watch. This is very subjective and hopefully, your expectations will improve with experience. I highly recommend that before you make a purchase, find QC pictures of the watch you will be ordering and see what others have GL’d and RL’d. Focus primarily on the GL’s. You’ll see many slight defects that get approved. If your watch ends up having them, please GL.

You’ve seen the defects. You know they are present in other watches. Keep the replica economy going. Learn to love and accept these discrepancies. These small defects make the watch unique and many of them can be modded away if they wind up seriously bothering you (crooked indices replaced by genuine or modded dials, etc.) Look and see what experienced users RL. This will help you to establish good expectations and what justifies RL’ing a watch.

Conclusion

Ultimately, it is up to you. Remember, that our small high-quality replica economy depends on the integrity of both TD’s and buyers. Hopefully, this post has helped you understand the consequences of RL’ing and that you’ll put more effort into properly establishing your expectations through due diligence and research. I hope that you’ll give a higher level of consideration to RL’ing.

It isn’t a trivial matter for our TD’s even if it seems as trivial as a set of new pictures in our email inbox for us. Again, I’ll restate that I’m not against RL’ing. I just want people to RL responsibly with proper expectations and education behind their decision. I’m not encouraging you to buy defective products, just make sure you know the difference between defective products and acceptable ones; sometimes the line between the two is exceptionally thin. It’s up to us to preserve the integrity of our niche community because we could just as quickly destroy it.

Good hunting.

Most factories won’t take a watch back for a majority of the RL issues, so the dealer has only some choices.

1. Order a replacement at dealer cost. Try to sell the RL watch to another.
2. Try to fix the issue
3. Refund the customer
4. Swap for a different watch
5. Argue with the factory for a replacement (requires lots of previous examples proving the problem is unique to that one watch. If this happens too many times factory may refuse to sell to that dealer

Source

Common movements used in rep watches

Non-chrono

1. 21J/DG2813 (note that despite the “21J” description these movements usually run 23 jewels). This is a generic term used to cover a wide variety of cheap Chinese movements – some are better than others, but as a general rule they are low-beat (21,600vph / 6 ‘ticks’ per second) movements, very cheaply built (from as little as $7 for the whole movement) but generally reliable and easy to live with. Usually automatic, but occasionally hand wind, dependent on the watch. A lot of really nice budget watches come with these fitted and whilst the sweep isn’t as smooth as, say, a gen Rolex, they’re damned good value for money and can just be thrown away and replaced if they break or need a service.

There’s also the DG4813 variant, which is high-beat but this has become very difficult to obtain of late, so is not commonly seen. It has largely been replaced by the Z2 (see below)

2. Z2 aka ‘high beat 2813’ aka various other names. Some have suggested that this is one to avoid, but it’s not quite that clear cut. Basically a cheap 28,800vph alternative to the “Asian ETA” movements, these are occasionally swapped into existing models by the factories without informing the dealers. Reliability can be okay – provided you get a good one. The real issue is that there are no parts available, so servicing can be a problem. The Asian ETAs are a much better choice, but these are maybe worth considering if the price is right – just don’t be conned into buying high-priced reps with ’em, it ain’t worth it.

3. Asian ‘clone’ ETA (A2824/A2836 & variants): These are literally copies/clones of the equivalent Swiss (ETA) automatic movements. Generally high quality – although not as well built as the Swiss equivalents – but reliable and with parts generally available (which makes servicing an easier proposition than some other movements). High beat (28,800) and great value. Probably the best choice of movement for higher-quality reps as they give the smooth sweep found in most gen watches

4. Swiss ETA (2836/2824 as above): Supposedly the genuine ETA (owned by swatch group) swiss automatic movements. This is a complete lottery. ETA have not been supplying ebauches outside Swatch group for several years now. There are NO new ETA movements in reps any more – only refurbished (usually with Asian parts). On top of that, as anyone who’s been in the game for a while should know, factories tell the dealer the spec of the watch they’re producing – and the dealers then use that for their sales pitch. That spec often then changes dependent on what parts the factories have available on a particular day – about which they DO NOT inform the dealers. Given that dealers DO NOT take the back off the watch during QC (nor should they), they’re as much in the dark about it as you. At best you get a refurbished (i.e. used) movement with asian parts in it. I wouldn’t recommend spending extra for ETA in a rep these days – more often than not, you’ll be getting an asian clone.

5. Sellita: As mentioned above, supply of ETA movements is getting very difficult as Swatch group are no longer selling ebauches outside their own group of companies. Sellita are another Swiss company who make a very similar range of high-quality movements. We’ve seen a few reps with “Swiss ETA” being supplied with Sellitas, but they’re fairly rare.

6. Rolex 3135 copy (and other Rolex clone movements). This is an Asian clone ETA automatic movement with modified rotor and bridges to make it look more like the real thing. It’s not going to convince anybody who knows their Rolex movements and tends to be less reliable than the alternatives (as well as being more expensive!). There are newer versions beginning to appear which are a little more reliable and look closer to the gen, but they are still near impossible to service and generally inferior to the clone ETAs. Rolex have closed casebacks anyhow, so I really don’t see the point in paying the extra for what is, effectively, just a higher-priced and less reliable Asian clone movement.

There is one notable exception to the above – the Yuki-sourced movement used by JF in their new (as of 2017) high-end subs. This is a proper copy of the Rolex movements (to the extent of being compatible with a lot of gen parts) and is much better quality than the modified Asian ETA-based clones otherwise supplied in reps. A good movement and well worth consideration.

7. Miyota 9015. With the disappearance of gen ETA movements, some reps are now coming with Japanese Miyota-sourced movements. The 9015 is a case in point – a high-beat 28,800vph 25 jewel movement that is an excellent alternative to ETA or clone ETA models mentioned above. Highly reliable and very good quality. Don’t hesitate.

8. Miyota 8215. As above, a solid workhorse movement. The only gotcha is that the second hand on these movements tends to stutter a little and is therefore a lot less smooth than the 9015 or, say, an Asian 2836 clone. The amount of stutter is dependent on the weight of the second hand – the heavier/longer the hand, the worse it’s going to be. I’d certainly avoid this movement on watches such as Tudors which tend to have “snowflake” hands. Although the 8215 is reliable, for this reason I would tend to think carefully before buying a watch with this movement.

9. Sea-Gull. Sea-Gull are a chinese maker of both movements and watches. Quality is very close to that of the Swiss and Japanese manufacturers and they’re generally a very safe buy – they make clones of several well-known movements (such as the 6497) as well as their own designs. The ST2555 has lately been turning up in quite a few reps. As with Miyota, they’re a good choice. Don’t hesitate.

10. A6497/A6498: An Asian copy of the Unitas 6497 or 6498 movement. Common in Panerai and various others – it’s an ultra-reliable yet inexpensive hand wind movement available with or without swan-neck regulator. Note, however, that there are several different grades and some are better built than others. However, they’re easy to service and generally bombproof. Either 18,000vph (5 ‘ticks’ per second) or 21600 vph (6 ‘ticks’ per second) but it is hard to tell the difference visually due to the short seconds hand (where fitted). It can come with or without a seconds hand, but usually with. If it has a seconds hand, the 6497 has the seconds hand opposite the crown (i.e. at 9 if the crown is at 3) whereas the 6498 has the seconds 90 degrees to the left of the crown (i.e. at 6 if the crown is at 3).

11. Swiss Unitas 6497/6498: Again, a hand wind movement. They used to be found in some higher-end Panerai reps but that has now ended since ETA quit supplying ebauches outside Swatch Group some years back.

12. Molnija: Not common these days, but DSN and others have used them on occasion – mainly for vintage Panerai models. This is actually a Russian-built descendant of the Cortebert (latterly Rolex) hand-wind pocketwatch movements used by Panerai and others in the 40s-50s. Very high quality but parts can be tricky to obtain. Functionally similar to the 6497 above and generally reliable, but less robust than the 6497.

13. Asian 52010 aka Liaoning SL6601. This movement has started to appear in the IWC 5007 and could, of course, turn up in other reps with similar functions in due course. It supports secs@9, PR @3 plus date. Liaoning are another well-established Chinese maker of movements – quality is generally good, although parts can be difficult to obtain. Should be relatively easy to service and reliability appears to be decent.

Then there are a few that don’t fit any of the above groups. Movements advertised as “Asian 23J with power reserve” being probably the most common. These can vary from being basic 21J’s with an added module for the PR complication to something like Sea Gull’s 23J PR movement – the latter being of rather better quality than most other low-beat autos and likely to be long-term reliable. You’ll also see ‘Asian 35J” movements advertised fairly frequently – which can also be from a range of sources but are often higher-quality generic Chinese movements similar to the Sea-Gull mentioned above – not as good as a normal Asian clone or other mainstream movement and generally low-beat, but can be good value for money in the right rep. One last oddity worth mentioning is the A7750 as described below. This is sometimes used as a regular automatic movement with the chrono complications removed (most often in Panerai autos). In this form it is much less fragile and many of the caveats mentioned elsewhere no longer apply. Likewise you will – even more rarely – find the same non-chrono A7750 with the auto-wind mechanism removed. This essentially removes the fragile parts that can be damaged by hand-winding on the normal version and is, likewise, not subject to most of the caveats noted elsewhere.

 

Chrono

Japan OS chrono (aka Japan Quartz aka a variety of other names): Basically cheap quartz chrono movements (i.e. battery powered). Reliable, great timekeepers, cheap. There’s a couple of varieties with different features, but quality is the same. If you can live with a ticking chrono hand (and seconds subdial) rather than the smooth sweep provided by autos, then there’s no reason not to buy one of these. Note that there are ‘smooth sweep’ quartz movements available and they very occasionally show up in reps. They’re a bit more expensive than regular quartz, but good quality. The smooth sweep applies to center seconds (i.e. the chrono hand) only, however – not running seconds in a subdial.

A7750 (occasionally called Asian Valjoux 7750): The standard automatic chrono movement used in a vast range of replica watches. Usually high-beat (28,800vph), but there is an older low-beat (21,600 vph) variant which still pops up now and again. Occasionally converted to hand-wind and also used in some non-chrono reps. Can be fragile and is difficult to service due to the lack of available spares. When serviced and running properly, however, it’s solid and works well. See the separate sticky about caveats as there are problems with some adaptations to this movement: http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum…?showtopic=6101

A7753: This is a variant on the A7750 and not a true clone of the Swiss 7753. Its primary difference from the A7750 is that its native position for subdials is 3, 6, 9 as opposed to 6, 9,12 for the 7750. The resulting lack of transfer gearing needed to move the subdials into the more common 3, 6, 9 position reduces the distance between datewheel and dial eliminating the ‘sunken datewheel’ seen on many reps. These movement also frequently feature a pusher (usually flush) at the 10 position which operates quick-set date. So far it has only made it into a handful of fairly recent models (notably Panerai). In other respects it shares the same strengths and weaknesses with its A7750 sibling, but the lack of transfer gearing does make it a little more robust in some cases.

A7751: This is a goodie as it replicates all the functions of the genuine Swiss movement including working moonphase complication. Found in a limited number of reps (notably a couple of Longines and Patek models). Should be treated gently but generally appears to be reliable.

Swiss Valjoux 7750: Used to appear in high-priced reps occasionally, but no longer available to the rep makers since ETA quit supplying ebauches to makers outside Swatch Group.

Copy Venus (or sometimes inaccurately described as Lemania). Actually a Sea Gull ST19 – fundamentally the same as the original Swiss Venus movement as Sea-Gull bought the original tooling. This is an excellent handwind chrono movement. Very reliable and feels like quality. The most robust chrono movement in reps outside of quartz options. Don’t hesitate.

Source

• 3Hz is also called 21600bph or 6bps, 4Hz is 28800bph or 8bps.
  The reason for this disparity (3Hz vs 6bps or 4Hz vs 8bps) is that the balance wheel advances the second hand both on the clockwise turn and counterclockwise turn, so a full turn cycle is 2 beats.

• Chinese 21J, Chinese 23J – no-name movements, based on DG2813 (if you’re lucky) or the Chinese Standard Movement and company, that the Chinese have perfected… mostly when it comes to cost of production – they can make a shitty versions for under 10 dollars, but you cannot expect any kind of reliability from it. The worst versions can be found in Chinese street reps and tend to break after a few months of use. If you ever see something like a Daytona with days of the week and month indicator on the subdials, you can bet it sports one of those bad boys.
  Some of the more reputable factories sometimes use movement called that and you can expect them to be of a passable to good quality then, but it’s still hit or miss.
  Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz.

• DG2813 or other DG-something – firstly, it still might be the shitty movements described above (especially if called A2813), them being clones of DG movements, which are in turn clones of old movements from Citizen. If you get an actual DG2813, you should not expect amazing quality, but it is very reasonable for it to work for years (accuracy is another thing though).
  Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz (e.g. DG4813).

• A2824, A2836 – the best of the best – ETA used to have factories in China, so the Chinese know how to produce the movements. The materials are somewhat worse than ETA required and the quality control is nowhere near what you would find in a gen Breitling or such, but they are reliable, any watchsmith can service or repair them, and replacements are freely available anywhere.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• A2892 – Chinese copy of a newer, thinner “version” of ETA 2824 – good movement, but way more rare and as such possibly slightly lower quality than the above two. Most of them will probably come from Sea-Gull, which would be good, but they might be QC rejects.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• A6497/A6498 – clone of ETA Unitas 6497/6498, great movement, simple, handwound, you are most likely to find one in a Panerai rep and you can’t really go wrong with this one.
  They beat at 3Hz.

• Swiss ETA 2824/2836/others – hit or miss – it depends on how the repmakers sourced it and how they stored it. I have a rep with a swiss movement and it performs beautifully, other people report the opposite – problems and having to replace. Could also get a Sellita instead of ETA (which is in no way a bad thing, Sellita is an excellent Swiss movement manufacturer and a former contractor for ETA).
  They beat at 4Hz unless vintage (check specific model) or Unitas 6497 – 3Hz.

• A775X (X is placeholder for other digits) – ETA Valjoux 775X clone, used in most rep chronographs. More costly to service and harder to source than other Asian ETAs, also more likely to break – all of this because it’s more complex. Check if the positions of the subdials were modified compared to the original – if yes, that’s a major yellow flag when it comes to relability and servicability. There are exceptions – ZF IWC chronos for example started using a sensible mod that you can safely go for.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• SA3135 – a modded A2836, may accept a genuine Rolex datewheel. Possibly the worst option you can get in a Submariner.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• SH3135, SH3131, VR3135 – Chinese “superclone” rolex movements, harder to service than A2836, but a lot of people prefer them because they can fit a genuine datedisc on them (not SH3131 because it has no date). Not actual superclones (as in there are differences between those and actual Rolex movements), but can be swapped for a genuine movement if you can get your hands on one.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• (S)A3186/(S)A3187 – modified asian ETA with contraptions that make it impossible to service and faulty. Best avoided, but currently the only way to get correct hand stack (as in order of hands seconds -> minutes -> 24hr -> 12hr) and setting method in Rolex GMT.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• A4130 – a weird mod of A7750 with subdials moved and possibly decorated, which is pointless in a closed-caseback watch. Comments about modified A7750s apply.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• SA4130 – either a complete superclone of Rolex 4130, or an ARF mod of A7750 – check if it’s from Noob Factory and expensive – if yes, its the former, otherwise the latter. ARF SA4130 simply doesn’t use the minutes and hours subdials (they are frozen) so there is little to no problem with added torque. If it’s not a new expensive Noob or ARF, it’s probably A4130 (described above) with an S tacked in front of the name.
  They beat at 4Hz.

• A8900/A8500 (in Omega reps) – movements modified to look like Omega calibers. Used to be modified ETA clones or even modified Chinese 21J/23J, but lately VSF started boasting a “superclone” version that gives the same functionality as gen. Some people seem to overhype those “superclones” as actual complete cloned movements – this is not actually the case, but they are reportedly more reliable than SA3186/SA3187s which strive to provide a similar functionality. Also, no rep Omega movements have the correct beatrate currently (3.5Hz), none have actual co-axial escapement (to my knowledge), and they use overlays with fake jewels, so take VSF’s “almost the same as genuine movement” with a grain of salt.
  They beat at 3Hz or 4Hz depending on the movement used as a base. VSF “superclones” beat at 4Hz.

• Sea-Gull movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions).
  Check specific model to know beatrate.

• Miyota movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions). People were high on Miyota 9015 at first (it’s thin like ETA 2892) because it made some thin reps possible, going as far as putting it in Tudor Pelagos for example, but in the end a lot of Miyota9015 reps have noisy rotors (unidirectional rotors can rotate in one direction freely so it’s harder to silence), so their expansion into the rep industry has been halted somewhat. Miyota 8125 is mostly an entry-level movement and often found in Submariner homages for example.
  Another thing worth mentioning is that SevenFriday reps use Miyota movements for a different reason entirely – the gens also do.
  9015 beats at 4Hz, 8125 beats at 3Hz, movements in SevenFridays beat at 3Hz (at least all of those I know about).

  Written by u/eposseeker

In an attempt to help our community, many users have helped cultivate this guide. This is only meant as a guide and all decisions about a specific model and subtle differences aren’t discussed in detail here. The intent here is to help you if you’re looking for a generalized consensus of “Who makes the best submariner?”. As factories frequently change and close down, I am hoping to keep this as updated as possible. Factories are listed in order of best to worst, if multiple factories are listed.

Watches at the chinatime level come from many sources and can be labeled with “factory” names like U1 or AAA.  at this level there is no best model from a specific place, they are shitters and they look the part at a glance and will maybe work for a while.

Current brands covered:

1. Rolex

2. Patek Philippe

3. Audemars Piguet

4. Vacheron Constantin

5. Richard Mille

6. Omega

7. Gem set ‘Iced Out’ Watches

8. Cartier

Rolex

• Submariner

  • 126610LN, LV & all variants including gold and two tone:

    • 3235 movement: VSF is best, Clean but has VR3235, then ZF third.

    • 2836, 2824 movements: GMF/BP are good.

  • 116610LN, LV & all variants including gold and two tone:

    • 3135 movement: VSF, Clean, ZF

  • 124060, 114060 (no date): VSF, Clean, BPF/GMF, ROF

  • Two tone and RG subs (i.e. 116613LB): VSF, Clean, GMF, ARF

• Daytona

  • Special note: Noob Daytona v4 was the best awhile ago, but are now closed.

  • All Daytona models:

    • White dial ceramic bezel: Clean v1, Clean v2, BTF in that order

    • Black dial ceramic bezel: BTF

    • Other models: Look at both Clean and BTF variants, as well as QF. All use the clone movement and are good quality.

    • ARF has gen-like thickness (slightly thicker), but the subdials that would count hours and minutes while the chrono is working do NOT function. If you don’t use chrono often, or want a different style than what Clean has to offer, go for this one.

• GMT Master II

  • PEPSI 126710BLRO, 116710BLRO: C+ Factory, Clean Factory, GMF v6 (get with VR3186 movement if you can)

  • BATMAN/BATGIRL 126710BLNR, 116710BLNR: C+ Factory, Clean, VRF, ARF (best insert, movement might be unstable)

  • 116710LN: C+, Clean, VRF

  • VTNR Sprite: Clean, GF, GMF

  • Rootbeer: Clean, GMF with VR3186

• GMT Master I: BPF

• GMT Master 6542: RBF (only available via Puretime for some reason), may be out of stock now.

• GMT Master II 16710, 16750m 16700: BP Factory (not quite gen spec but best we’ve got)

• Explorer II 216570 – All models: GMF/BP ask for VR3186 if available

• Explorer I 214270: BPF

• Two-tone Explorer I 124273: GMF

• Airking 116900: GMF (904L), BP (316L)

• Milgauss 116400GV:

  • Blue: ARF or BPF

  • Black: BPF

• Yachtmaster:

  • 226659: VSF in white and yellow gold

  • 116622: Clean, ARF

  • 126622 (RG): Clean

  • 116655 (Rose gold): Clean, VRF

  • 126655 (Rose gold): Clean, EWF

  • 268622 37mm: ARF

• Datejust 36 – All models:

  • Decorated 3235: ARF. ARF has good dials, but date font can be too bold (v3 might be fixed now) and the crystal lacks enough AR coating on the cyclops.

  • 2824: GMF is well executed overall, gold plating does not cover the side of the midlinks/endlinks, but the date font is better overall. There are a few other factories in the 36mm space, and GMF and ARF do not cover all dial variants. Take your time and look around and compare to gen

  • New 2021 & 2022 dial variants: GMF or BP.

• Datejust 41 – All models:

  • 3235 Clone movements: VSF (best movement), Clean (better movement)

  • 2824: ZF, ARF, GMF and BP in that order

  • New 2021 & 2022 dial variants: GMF or BP.

• DayDate 40 & 36 – All models: BPF, GMF

• SkyDweller – all models: Noob v2. Has low beat movement, and other issues with the movement not being like gen, but it’s the best we’ve got.

• Datejust 28 – all models: GMF

• Oyster Perpetual 41: GMF, UBF with VR3230 movement.

• Nautilus

  • 5711 all color dials – All models: PPF v4 best overall factory but has a fat bezel. 3KF v2 has a good movement but small date font.

  • 5811 41mm Nautilus – no rep out yet

  • Iced out Nautilus – R8 factory. Very well done. DM v2 is also well done and differently styled (baguette bezel)

  • 5712 (moonphase date) – PPF v2 (sometimes call v3) (now ZF). All functions are the same. Excellent rep.

  • 5726 (triple calendar) – PPF (now ZF)

  • 5980 Chronograph – I cannot recommend any good model. All have poor date font, too thick and not done very well. TWF, BPF and a few others are in this space.

  • 7010 Ladies 33mm – PF. Overall well done, quartz movement.

  • 7118 Ladies 35mm – PF. Very well done.

• Aquanaut

  • 5067 ladies 35mm aquanaut – PPF. Thin, quartz, but gen like.

  • 5164 Travel Time – GRF v2. Too thick compared to gen, time zone functionality does not work. Gray dial and rose gold model are the only good options here.

  • 5165 37mm – All models ZF. Excellent rep as well.

  • 5167 40mm – All models: ZF Factory best overall factory, despite the “5” flaw (the line of the grenade pattern extends below the lower left of the 5 numeral, unlike gen). 3KF has a clone movement but machining is not as nice as ZF. OVERALL BEST AQUANAUT REP IN GENERAL is the ZF.

  • 5168 42mm Blue and Green – ZF. Blue dial isn’t quite as nice as gen, green dial and strap misses the mark compared to gen. Overall best execution though. 3KF has clone movement.

  • 5968 Chronograph – OMF. Very thick, overall not recommended unless you like the look.

• Calatrava

  • 5077 – Notre Dame & Bhutan enamel craftsman dials – FLF Factory

  • 5088 – FLF Factory

  • 5089 Azulejos enamel craftsman dial – FLF Factory

  • 5119 – TW Factory

  • 5120 – TW Factory. Very nice execution.

  • 5123 – TW Factory. Overall decent execution.

  • 5196 sub seconds – AIF.

  • 5296 (open caseback) – All models: ZF Factory. OVERALL BEST CALATRAVA IN GENERAL

  • 5297G (diamond bezel) – ZF Factory

  • 5153 (officer’s caseback, smaller case) – All models: ZF Factory

  • 5227 (officer’s caseback, lacquer dial) – All models: ZF Factory. OVERALL BEST CALATRAVA IN GENERAL. 3KF has clone movement and is thinner.

  • 6007 – ZF Factory. Dial and strap color are not as dark as gen.

  • 7112 – KGF. Decent execution, not amazing.

• Grand Complications

  • 4968 Ladies moonphase – KGF.

  • 5070 – There is a rep, unsure of the factory. Not all versions are in stock though.

  • 5205 Triple calendar moonphase – GRF v2 or KMF. Both are not great compared to gen, honestly, but look fine enough.

  • 5396 – GRF for all models.

    • Known issues: sunken date disc, smaller day and month font than gen.

  • 5524 Travel Time – GRF v2. Get the blue textured dial with brown strap, but the GMT hand is fixed on a 24hr loop, and the inner circle of that hand should be blue and not white. time zone switching is faux. Dial is not as nice as gen, but overall nice try and relatively thin.

  • 6102 Celestial map – TZF. Looks good, but functions nothing like gen. Not recommended overall unless you love the look.

• NOTE: Patek has almost never put a tourbillon in a watch and had it visible from the dial side. They have for a select few references a long time ago.

• 15500 41mm – ZF v3 with clone movement, APS v3 with clone movement (thick date font)

• 15400 41mm – ZF with clone 3120 movement, APS also with clone

• 15510 15550 37mm: TWF and IPF have a poor clone out

• 15450 37mm – JF

• 15202ST 39mm ultra thin – XF has thinner hand base, ZF has better dial color. Choose according to your preferences they are both great. XF is no longer available.

  • 15202IP – ZF, XF (no longer available), BF

  • 15202 green dial and diamond variants – BF v2

• 16202 – not available yet

• 15703 & 15710 42mm Offshore: APS has a clone movement. ZF and JF are overall similar enough.

  • Note: colored variants of these models will be from JF or BPF

• 15720 42mm Offshore: all 3 variants – BF Factory

• 67540 Ladies Offshore 37mm: unknown factory, but a high quality rep is out there with real diamonds. Ask your TD.

• Royal Oak Tourbillon – R8 Factory

  • JF made a good ultra-thin tourbillon (but still ~11mm)

• 26579 Annual Calendar – ZP factory

• 26331 Chronograph – BF and OMF, but none are great.

• Open work tourbillon – R8 factory

• 77350 34mm Royal Oak (ladies) – 8F

• Royal Oak Offshore 44mm: JF for nearly all models

• Overseas Ultra-thin 2000V: XF for all models (black, grey, blue) – currently closed. Cross is a bit flat below the 12 marker, movement finishing isn’t great, but overall a great rep. 8F is good.

• Overseas generation 2 reference 47040

  • JJF Factory is no longer making these, but in general had a good rep if you find it on M2M. Their v2 was superior to their v1.

  • MKS Factory – seems to take cues from JJF. Best models are the grey and blue models. Gen-like thickness.

    • Known flaws: Black and white dials have different dial patterns than gen. The triangles/pyramids should be stacked on top of each other, but they are instead offset between rows – not a big deal IMO. Grey dial bezel should be titanium, but appears to be painted (unvetted claim). All models have a flat cross below 12, gen has a nicely beveled cross

• Overseas generation 3 reference 4500V

  • ZF/PPF (same) Factory for all references. No other factory comes close. I used to list BP Factory, but ZF blows them out of the water.

• Chronometre Royal 1907: MKS factory for all models. Good not great rep.

• Patrimony reference 85150: PPF is best, then AIF, MKS, and FKF.

• Fiftysix reference 4600: ZF for all references.

• Fiftysix complete calendar: ZF, MXF ( may have day alignment issues – right justified)

• Historique reference 86300: GSF for all models. Not great, but good rep

• All other references – check the TD listings for other models available, but most are either too thick, or have other significant flaws.

• RM011: KVF – thick but best deco, older models for thinner cases but worse deco. Glossy ceramic instead of matte, carbon fiber reinforced plastic instead of NTPT

• RM035: ZF – real NTPT, closest to 1:1 size and proportions, v4 for absolute best, but all acceptable

• RM055: BBR Factory has a ‘clone’ movement, and overall great execution. ZF – real ATZ matte ceramic case, closest to 1:1 size and proportions

• RM027: EURF – serviceable tourbillon movement

• RM056: EURF – sapphire bezels, plastic midcase, serviceable tourbillon movement

• RM052 Skull: JBF – sometimes branded as ZF, serviceable tourbillon movement, out of production. EURF model may be available from some sources, may be same thing as JBF (unconfirmed)

• RM012: KVF – thick case and weird deco, but real tourbillon. May be serviceable movement

• RM68: RR Factory

• RM010: RR Factory

• RM07: RM Factory – including bon-bon model

• Seamaster: All permutations – VSF (true clone movement), ORF, OMF

• Aqua Terra: VSF (true clone movement), OMF

• Seamaster Aqua Terra GMT: VSF (true clone movement)

• Diver 300M: VSF (true clone movement), ZF, OMF

• Planet Ocean (39mm, 42mm, 45mm): VSF (true clone movement), MKF, BP

• Speedmaster Racing: HRF

• DeVille 33mm: UVS Factory

• No Time to Die Seamaster: VSF, ORF

• Deville Dew Drop 33mm: 3S Factory

• Tresor Quartz 39mm: 3M Factory

• Deville 36mm: HR Factory

• Speedmaster 57: OMF (but not great)

• Deville Prestige 39mm: ZF

Santos (2018) 35mm or 40mm: GF for steel, BVF for two-tone or gold. GF has fixed their crystals in the most recent batches, and is the only one with a consistently gen-like bracelet. GF > BVF > V6F > 3KF. Important note: GF has been noted to have some screws fall off, whereas BVF does not seem to have this issue on the bracelet.

All AF Cartier reps are top tier, but they are not as active as some other factories, so alternatives are listed.

Tank Louis: DRF

Tank Solo: AF; K11F decent alternative.

Tank Must (2021): F1.

Tank Francaise: 8848F.

Ballon Bleu 33mm or 36mm: AF with Cal.076 or quartz; 3KF with Cal.076, or V6F with quartz are decent alternatives. Recommended to avoid models with Seiko NH05. Ballon Bleu 28mm or 42mm: AF; V6F decent alternative.

Panthere: GF for steel, BVF for two-tone or gold.

Source

This guide was created to help guide those who are interested in Ladies watches. The factories listed are in order of best to not best, but for many of these there is only one factory making the particular model here.

Note: where it says “unknown factory”, it means a replica exists, but you’ll need to ask your TD with a picture of the watch you’re looking for. Some of these are from smaller factories, with smaller batches, and could be out of stock.

• Datejust 36mm: GMF, ARF, BPF

• Datejust 31mm: GMF, GSF, WF, APS has the new 2022 dials, EWF

• Datejust 28mm: GMF, BP, WF, CSF

• Daydate 36mm: GMF, BP, EWF

• Explorer 36mm: BP, EWF

• Oyster Perpetual 36mm: EWF

• Oyster Perpetual 34mm: ANF

• Yachtmaster 34mm: BP Factory

• Pearlmaster 34mm: K6 Factory

• Nautilus 7118 35mm: 3KF (super rep), PF, MSF

• Nautilus 7010 32mm: unknown factory

• Aquanaut 37mm: ZF

• Aquanaut 35mm: PPF

• Twenty~4 25mm: AW Factory

• Royal Oak 67540 37mm: RXW (super-rep)

• Royal Oak 15450 37mm: JF

• Royal Oak 77350 34mm: BF (SS, YG, RG, Two Tone)

• Royal Oak 67650: JF (potentially out of stock)

• Royal Oak Frosted 33mm: OMF

• Royal Oak 67601 33mm: RF

• Royal Oak Offshore 26231 37mm Chronograph: RXW

• Ballon Bleu 33mm: AF (if available, comes in white, pink and diamond bezel), otherwise 3KF

• Ballon Bleu 28mm: AF, 3KF

• Cle De Cartier 31mm: DR Factory

• Cheetah series (27 x 37mm): GF, K11 factory, BVF

• Must de Cartier (round): unknown factory

• Panthere de Cartier (small 22mm): BVF

• Pasha: 3KF, BVF

• Santos 36mm: 3KF, GF

• Santos-Dumont (medium 38 x 27.5): F1 factory

• Tank Americaine: GSF

• Tank MUST de Cartier (medium 33.7 x 25mm): F1 factory (red, green, white and blue dials), White dial also with bracelet, K11F

• Tank Must de Cartier (small 29.5 x 22mm): F1 factory with bracelet (with and without diamonds), K11 Factory, DR

• Tank Solo (small & medium): AF

• Sweet Alhambra 4-leaf clover: VCA Factory

• Charms Collection (25mm, 32mm, & 38mm): BVF

• Pont de Amoureux 38mm: 5GF

• Poetic Complication: VCA Factory

• Lady Feerie: 5GF

• Lady Arpels Ballerine Enchantee: 5GF

• Heure H watch 26 & 30mm: BVF

• Kelly 2: unknown factory

• Ladies Overseas 33mm: RXW. Good date font, comes in polished or diamond bezel.

• Heritage 31mm: TWF

• Rendezvous Night & Day: ZF super rep, all variations. GF is another good factory

• Rendezvous Moon: CCF

• Rendezvous Tourbillon: RMS

• Reverso One 20mm: IMF (could also be TWF?)

• J12 Electro Dream: TWF

• J12 33mm: KOR, East Factory

• J12 38mm: KOR, East Factory

• Code Coco: unknown factory

• Camelia watch, with moving cover (multiple variants): VAV Factory

• Mademoiselle Prive: TTF

• BOY FRIEND: BVF

• Premiere Rock Pop 16mm: BVF

• Ruban Bow Tie: VCA Factory

• Ruban Bow Bracelet: VCA Factory

• Premiere: BVF

• Constellation 24mm : 8848F, GF

• Constellation 27mm: 8848F

• Constellation 29mm: TWS Factory

• Deville 27mm: BVF

• Aqua Terra Seamaster ladies 34mm: VSF, RWF

• Ladymatic: V6F

• Happy Sport all sizes (30mm, 33mm, 36mm): BVF, YF, LT Factory

• Happy Diamonds: TF

• Imperiale: unknown factory

• L’Heure Du Diamant Round: unknown

• Reine de Naples: ZF (super rep)

• Serpenti: BVF

• Divas Dream: unknown

• LVCEA: BVF

• B.ZERO1: BVF

• La D De Dior 25mm: unknown factory

• LA D DE DIOR ROSE CÉLESTE: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

• Gem Dior 27mm: TWF multiple dials

• Limelight Stella: CCF

• Limelight High Jewellery 31mm: unknown factory

• Limelight Gala: unknown

• Bee watch with two tone bracelet: unknown factory

• GRIP watch 38mm: unknown factory

• G-Timeless Cat Head: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

• Vintage Quartz flip cover: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

• Diamantissima 22 & 27mm: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

• Tambour Monogram 34mm: AF

• Tambour Horizon Smart watch: unknown factory

Source. 

 

Commonly accepted as Super Reps NWBIGs

Audemars Piguet ROO Diver JF 10 15703

Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (black) Best = Noob V1 (not sold by TD anymore) #2 = ZF

Breitling Avenger II GMT GF (first batch with correct DW, includes the polished SS and the blacksteel / DLC) infos here
Breitling SuperOcean Abyss
Breitling SuperOcean Abyss Chrono Noob
Breitling SuperOcean Heritage Black Noob V2 (not available on TD anymore)

Breitling SuperOcean II 44mm (Noob) (black only)
Breitling Transocean Day Date Blue – V7F
Breitling Navitimer 1 41mm – V7F (blue is best, then black/white)

Bvlgari Diagono Magnesium GF, last version

Cartier Santos XL V6
Cartier, Ballon Bleu 42mm, V6F V4
Cartier, Ballon Bleu Pink Dial 33m, AF (CAL.076)
Cartier Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF

Franck Muller Casablanca Automatique 8880 – GF

Hublot Big Bang V6(F) “V6.5” SS (not the carbon fiber ones)

IWC 3777-01 ZF
IWC 3878 Spitfire V6F
IWC Big Pilot 5009-01 ZF
IWC Laureus Sport Ingenieur 2824 Noob
IWC Da Vinci by TW
IWC Portofino AF
IWC Portofino “150 years anniversary” blue dial (maybe others too) by V7F

Jaeger-LeCoultre Diver Master Compressor Noob

Montblanc Timewalker Chrono – Noob A7753

(list of PAMs below only shows the bests Super Reps for that particular model)
PAM 000 – Luminor Base Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2.5
PAM 005 – Luminar Marina Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2 / N-series H maker V2
PAM 026 – Luminor Marina Destro PVD (44mm) K-series Noob V3
PAM 029 – Luminor GMT (44mm) M-series Noob V2-improved
PAM 057 – Luminor Power Reserve Titanium (44mm) DSN
PAM 087 – H maker F-series w/ A-7750
PAM 088 – Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob
PAM 104 – Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob
PAM 111 – Luminor Marina (44mm) N-series Noob V3 (and later -> current best : v11)
PAM 112 – Luminor Base (44mm) M-N series Noob
PAM 127 – Luminor 1950 “Fiddy” (47mm) Latest Noob
PAM 164 – Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob
PAM 176 – Luminor Base Titanium (44mm) M-N series Noob V3
PAM 177 – Luminor Marina Titanium (44mm) N-P series Noob
PAM 187 – Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753
PAM 217 – Luminor Marina Militare 1950 Destro “Fiddy” (47mm) 2012 Noob
PAM 243 – Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2
PAM 285 – K-series KW/V6Fac with A7750 decorated like OPIII)
PAM 288 – Radiomir Chronograph (45mm) K-series H maker
PAM 292 – Radiomir Black Seal (45mm) J-series Noob
PAM 297 – Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob
PAM 299 – Luminor Marina Automatic (K-series) (44mm) O- series Noob
PAM 318 – Luminor Marina Logo (44mm) L-series Noob
PAM 346 – Radiomir Titanio (45mm) KW/V6F
PAM 356 – Luminor Chrono Daylight (44mm) O-series Noob 7753
PAM 364 – Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob
PAM 390 – Luminor Boutique Edition (44mm) N-series Noob
PAM 411 to 420 – Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) KW/V6F
PAM 432 to 434 – Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) H Maker
PAM 441 – Luminor GMT VSF V2
PAM 508 – Luminor 1950 Submerislbe Ceramica (47mm) KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000 // P-KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2
PAM 569 – Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2
PAM 571 – ZFac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 NON-inverted Improved ZP9000-V2.5 // KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000-V2. KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated Seagull NON-inverted K9000-SeagullV2.
PAM 607 – KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated A7750 NON-inverted KP9000-V2) The most interesting version for A7750 lovers. // KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated KP9000-Seagull V2 NON-inverted The most interesting version for Seagull lovers

Rolex 114300, 39mm, Grape and Grey dial JF (now ARF, service is recommended)
Rolex Sub 16610 TC
Rolex TW Best/WM9 (Sub/Bluesy/DD)
Rolex 116900 AIR-KING GMF & BP (last versions)

Seven Friday (V6F) P series (P1-1, P3-1), V series (V2-1) and M series (not the M2-2 one)

Tag Heuer Aquaracer 300 (White Dial on Ronda with SS bracelet)
Tag Heuer Aquaracer Calibre 5 SS on Rubber – SW200

Tudor Black Bay Red 2016 ZF (last shield version)
Tudor Heritage Ranger SS S Factory
Tudor Black Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4
Tudor Blue Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4

Commonly accepted as First Class++ NWBIGs
These are Super Reps on the wrist, minor tell only on the open caseback or a missing function so unless you take it off, show it to an expert and give him a few minutes for close inspection, these ARE CONSIDERED SUPER REPS

PAM 438 – VSF V2
PAM 687 – Acciaio Brevettato SF

Longines, Master Collection LGF Top Edition

Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m LMPO Noob V5
Omega Seamaster Diver 300M 2019 Real Ceramic Case VSF (v1 only unless you get a fixed version)

Patek Philippe Calatrava 5296R RG/LE ZF with MY9015 Mod (WG could be too, need feedbacK)
Patek Philippe Calatrava 5296G SS ZF White Sector Dial/Blue Hands

Under debate / No Consensus yet
Likely Super Reps but needs more feedback, definitely FIRST CLASS NWBIGs

Cartier, Ballon Bleu 28 and 33mm, V6F
Cartier Santos 100 V6F (Black Dial, Titanium Ultimate Swiss SW)
Cartier Ronde Croisiere WSRN0002 GP
Cartier W5200025 ZF
Chanel J12 38 mm – FR Factory
IWC 501902 Top Gun Miramar ZF
IWC IW388002 V6F
IWC IW327010 MARK XVIII by V7 Factory
IWC Big Pilot IW502001 Real Ceramic ZF V2 (waiting for new batch, short minute hand issue)
Longines, La Grande Classique SS 37mm JF
Longines Avigation Bigeye ZX
Omega Aqua Terra 8500 Clone – VSF
Omega AT Master Co-Axial 8900 – VSF
Omega De Ville SS RXW A2892
Omega De Ville SS GPF V2
Tudor Heritage Ranger V6F
TAG Heuer Aquaracer Special Edition Premier League GS
Zenith Pilot Extra Special 20 – Black dial (V6F > ZF)

FIRST CLASS NWBIGs

Audemars Piguet 15703 ZF
Audemars Piguet 15500 Black and Blue – ZF & APS
Bell & Ross 03-92 ZF (not the Golden Heritage one that has a very bad Dial)
Bell & Ross 03-92 Horolum Watch Achive Custom
Bell & Ross 03-93 GMT Watch Archive Custom
Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (Noob V2)
Breitling Navitimer World 46mm GMT (black only) BP
Breitling Avenger Blackbird (GF/ GF V2)
Cartier W6701011 ZF (really subtle difference on DW and window)
Franck Muller Master Square GF
Hublot Classic Fusion 42mm JJF black dial (V2) – Back is wrong and screws are randomly falling
IWC Portofino White Dial V5 MKF
IWC Portofino “150 years anniversary” white dial MKF
IWC Mark XVII Le Petit Prince MKF
IWC Mark XVII MKF
IWC Portuguese 7 days ZF (last version)
IWC Black 3714 – ZF V3 (slim movement)
Jaeger-LeCoultre Master-Ultrathin Moonphase ZF (black dial, possibly the others too, moon & back / clasp are little off)
Montblanc Heritage Spirit M Factory
Omega Seamaster 300 Spectre VSF
Omega Seamaster Diver 300M 2018 VSF V2
Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m 42 and 45mm (CrPO) Noob
Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean (45.5 / 42mm) CrPO (8500 Super Clone) VSF
PAM 382 – VSF V2 (small issue with the font on the crown guard)
Patek Philippe Calatrava 6007A ZF
Rolex DateJust 41 by VSF / ARF
Rolex Explorer (214270) SH3135 V2 (JF)
Rolex Day Date 18239 TW Best/WM9
Rolex Daytona 116500 (Asia 4130 Mod) White/Stk – Noob
Rolex Daytona 116520 (Asia 4130 Mod) – Noob
Rolex Submariner 116610LN ZZF v2
Rolex Submariner No Date ZZF v3
Rolex Submariner 116610 Date VSF (GET THIS ONE, might even be Super Rep once Rehaut is fixed)
Rolex Sea Dweller 4000 (116660) ARF 904L Steel SH3135
Rolex Sea Dweller 4000 (116600) Noob V2
Rolex Sea Dweller 2017 Baselworld 126600 904L ARF & Noob (latest versions)
Rolex Yacht-Master Rhodium Noob 904L Steel SA3135/VR3135
Tag Heuer Carrera calibre 1887 V6F – Ceramic Bezel Black Dial on SS
Tudor LHD Pelagos – XF
Tudor Black Pelagos – ZF V2/V3

Under review (likely to be FIRST CLASS, some could be Super Reps but need more feedback)

Audemars Piguet – XF V2 FC Diver 15706
Breitling SuperOcean SeaWolf H-factory v2
Breitling Superocean Heritage II 42mm – GF V2 (wrong pearl, font too bold, date font)
Concord C1 – H Factory
Cartier Panthère Secrete DJ
Cartier Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF 1:1
IWC Big Pilot 5009-12 ZF
IWC Big Pilot 5009-16 ZF
IWC 5009-08 LPP ZF V2
Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean GMT 600m
Omega De Ville SS MKS
Omega Planet Ocean 600m GMT (Black/Orange) VSF 8605
PAM 616 – CarboTech Submersible VSF A7750
PAM 424 V2 California Dial Super Clone P.3000 ZF
Rolex Sea Dweller Deepsea (DBlue) Noob V7
Rolex Date-Just 116234 ARF
Rolex Explorer II 42mm 216570 Noob (Correct Hand Stack)
SevenFriday P2B/03-W ‘Woody’ NFC V6F
Tudor Heritage Black Bay Bronze Blue XF
Tudor Blue Heritage Black Bay (Bucherer) XF
Vacheron Constantin Overseas White JJF MY9015 Mod (need feedback on movement noise and cross engraving thickness on the back)
Zenith Extra Special Bronze Edition V6F/KW

NOT ACCEPTED as NWBIGs/Super Reps (naked eye instant tell(s)/waiting for update)
Tudor BB Red Rose Edition ZF – V4/V5
Blancpain Villeret 6654 SS (with complication) OMF : moon phase goes the wrong way + adjustment wrong side of the case
Glashutte Senator Sixties – GF
Rolex Celini MKF
Tudor Black Bay GMT Baselworld 2018 ZF
Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711 PPF White

Source

WATCH WITHOUT DATE or WATCH WITH DATE, WITHOUT QUICKSET

The crown has 2 positions:

1. Normal position – wearing position

In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance – DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.

Make sure that when you handle the crown in any way the watch is in your hand, not on your wrist. This is because there is a possibility you bend or damage the crown tube and / or case of the watch, should you handle the crown when the watch is on your wrist.

2. Pulled out position – time (and date) setting

When the crown is pulled out, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards. To set the date please keep moving the the crown forwards (clockwise) to the desired date.

WATCH WITH DATE QUICKSET

1. Normal position – wearing position

In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance – DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.

2. Pulled out once position – date setting

When the crown is in this position the crown can be turned upwards to change the date. When using the quickset function to change the date please make sure the time is first set to 6 o’clock. This is because around 12 o’clock the watch itself is mechanically changing the date. Should you try to change the date manually when the watch is using this function there is a chance you damage the mechanism. When the time is set at or around 6 o’clock this mechanism can not be damaged.

3. Pulled out twice position

Time setting When the crown is pulled out twice, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards.

Chronograph Manual

Using a chronograph:

1. Your watch has 2 pushers. The top one, pusher A is usually used to start and stop the chronograph. The bottom pusher, pusher B, is used to reset the chronograph. The chronograph can be used as a stopwatch, for example to measure lap times. Note: never push both pushers simultaneously.

2. The second-hand of the chronograph is the long central hand on your watch. A watch with a chronograph usually has a small seconds hand in a separate sub- dial, for the time function of your watch. Please do not keep the chronograph running all the time, as this takes a lot of power reserve from the mechanism.

3. Usually a chronograph has 2 or 3 sub-dials / counters. One is used to show the seconds, this hand is always moving as it shows the seconds of the time, not the seconds elapsed when using the chronograph. The other two sub-dials are used to show the elapsed minutes and hours when using the chronograph. When the chronograph is not being used the hand of these sub-dials should be centered pointing towards 12 o’clock.

ROLEX OYSTER DAY-DATE, QUICKSET

To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must fist unscrew the crown from the case, ‘hen pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is Screwed down to the case again before you wear it.

ROLEX OYSTER WITH DATE FUNCTION

To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must first unscrew the crown from the case, then pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is screwed down to the case again before you wear it.

 

ZF: High quality factory for most non-Rolex watches. Overall a good factory with solid releases. Just starting to branch into AP and RM, and they are pretty good.

Noob / N Factory: NOW CLOSED 🙁 Noob factory is probably the most famous factory among others, they started a very long time ago and really developing their piece of replica. Noob makes a decent submariner, but have a great Daytona with clone movement, and a good pepsi insert. Besides Rolex, Noob also developing some brands like some Planet Ocean Omega, Blancpain, some Audemars Piguet models, and some Panerai model. Recently (5/12/21) Noob was hit very hard in a raid so their models are on hold for ~6 months (rumor on timeline).

VSF/V6F/XF/HBB/KW: re-opened. All fall under a common parent company, but VSF specializes in Omega and Rolex super-reps and Panerai, V6F does quite a bit of projects (though the name isn’t used much nowadays) and XF focuses on Audemars Piguet but recently ventured into Vacheron Constantin. HBB does Roger Dubuis.

ARF/JF: JF is the brand name of AP reps. High quality, great detail, though ZF is showing them a run for their money these days. JF also makes middle-high tier Rolex watches among others. ARF is a division that focuses on high quality Rolex releases that focus on finishing. Rumor that JF is closing.

JVS: Newer factory as of 2021, takes inspiration from VSF and aims to release high quality Rolex releases.

ZZF/Clean: Quality releases recently for Rolex. Rebranded to Clean factory. Be aware of fake

PPF: Supposedly family of ZF, but focused on Patek. Has the best current Nautilus

BP/GMF: BP is one of the OG rep factories. Has reps of most brands and models, and are at an affordable price. GMF seems to be a higher end brand focusing on finish, but sourcing from similar places.

MK/MKS: Focuses on IWC, Patek and Omega releases, though they have branched into other brands too.

TF: Specializes in tourbillons (hence “T” F), but most are 42mm and kind of thick.

GF: Originally started focusing on German watches (“G”F), but have branched into many other Swiss brands like JLC and Cartier. Creates ‘copy cat’ models for a bit cheaper, and sometimes surprises with improved details

FK: Makes quite a few reps, most are not very good or just barely miss the mark for one specific reason. However, their Breguet 5177 v3 watch is superb!!! So do not underestimate any release of theirs.

R Factory: Rolex

YLF: Connected to ZF, focuses on IWC

VRF: Specialized in the Rolex arena with an excellent sub, excellent new VR3135 movement, and gold wrapped subs too.

OMF: Focuses on middle tier quality and prices, but recently have high quality Omega releases

PF: Revolutionized the Nautilus market with the first thin Nautilus. However, they were recently outdone by PPF and 3K. Focused on Patek, but have other releases.

3K/BTF: clone Patek movement releases and excellent Daytona reps.

JJF: Focused on Vacheron and Patek releases, came out with the great Overseas rep. Rumor is they shut down though.

TTF: Higher end Entry tier quality watches.

GDF: Higher end Entry tier quality watches.

TWF: Taiwan Factory. Specialising in Cartier but with a number of other watches for low prices but decent quality.

On a budget? That’s okay! This list is for you. These are not the $500+ versions with super clone movements or hyper fine details. These are the better than bottom barrel, ‘good enough’ versions.

Last Update: October 25, 2022

All models with an * are considered High tier (aka the best you can get and are quite good).

Rolex

• Submariner 116610LN, LV and others: BP Factory ($350) (ZF 116610LN is $400), VRF ($320-$350)

• Submariner 126610LN, LV and others: BP Factory ($350)

• Submariner 116040 and 126040 (no date): BPF ($300)

• *Explorer I: BP Factory ($300)

• Explorer II 216570: BP factory ($350)

• *Seadweller 16600: BP Factory ($300)

• Daytona: VRF V2 (Panda / Black) modified 7750 at an affordable price of $378

• GMT Master II (Batman, Batgirl, Pepsi, LN): BP Factory with incorrect hand stack movement A2836 ($300)

• GMT Master II 5 digit 16710/16750: BP factory $330

• Datejust 36 (all variants): BP Factory with 2824 movement ($300-$320), ARF ($400)

• Datejust 41 (all variants): BP Factory with 2824 movement ($310-$320)

• DayDate 36/40: BP Factory ($300+)

• Oyster Perpetual 41 and 36: BP Factory ($320)

• Yachtmaster 40mm: VRF with 2836 movement ($350-$370)

Audemars Piguet

• *15450 Royal Oak 37mm: JF for $380

• 15400 Royal Oak 41mm: APSF v1 (might not be widely available) for $300

• 15500 Royal Oak 41mm: MPF ($300)

• 15703 RO Offshore: ROF ($400)

• No other ‘good enough’ reps for AP. Recommend higher price bracket. See AP section for who makes the best.

Patek Philippe

• Nautilus: BP Factory for $350.

• Aquanaut: BP Factory for $350 (unsure if still made)

• *Calatrava 5296: ZF for $400

• Still recommend higher price bracket for Nautilus and Aquanaut

Vacheron Constantin:

• *Patrimony Date: PPF for $318

• No other good recommendations – for Overseas go for ZF (higher price bracket)

Tudor

• *BB58: ZF ($300)

• *BB36: KRF ($340)

• Pelagos: ZF ($360)

Omega

• *Planet Ocean 600m 39.5mm: VSF ($390)

• *Seamaster Diver 300m: VSF/SBF with clone ($390), ZF with modified 2824 ($360)

• *Seamaster Spectre: VSF v2 ($390)

• *Speedmaster Racing Chrono 40mm: HRF ($380)

• *Seamaster Aqua Terra 150m: VSF ($400)

Cartier

• *Tank Louis: DRF for $248

• *Tank Solo: K11 for $280

• *Ballon Bleu 42mm: AF for $250

• *Santos: F1

• *Ballon Bleu 42: AF ($200-250)

IWC

• *Portofino: V7F ($310)

• *Mark XVIII Pilot: V7F ($350)

• There are more <$400 IWC model available, check TD websites.

Jaeger LeCoultre

• Master Ultra Thin Moonphase: AZF ($380)

• Reserve de Marche: ZF ($390)

Panerai

There are reps that are <$400, but look for anything by VSF from a TD website

Richard Mille

Nothing noteworthy in this price range.

Source

What models this guide will cover: 2018 Seamaster Professional Diver 300m, 2019 Seamaster Diver Titanium model, Seamaster 300 “Spectre”, Aqua Terra 8500/8900 series, De Ville Hour Vision, De Ville Prestige (Including Orbis), Constellation. I will update it time after time, probably the soonest update will be dedicated to Planet Ocean model and then im planning to add info about all 007 limited models.

If, after reading that guide, you would have any Omega related questions/thoghts, feel free to PM me or comment here.

1. 2018 Seamaster Professional Diver

Gen Specs:

· Width 42 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13,7 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8800, METAS-certified

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 5200 USD

VSF Seamaster Diver 300m V2 Specs:

· Width 42 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 14 mm

· Movement: Asian ETA 2824 decorated to Omega 8800 Caliber

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 350 USD (bracelet version)

Known issues:

· Short crown guard in comparison to the gen (minor)

· End links have their 2 mid lines not flat like gen or like bracelet, they are still rounded (like a half pipe), should be flat like on the bracelet.

· Lume color (some people claim the lume color to be yellowish/greenish instead of being pure white. In my personal opinion its not a flaw, cause it really depends on the lightning very much, not to mention that charged lume changes color. Ive seen some gen watches with the same lume.

· Blue model color is a little off

· In my opinion grey dial needs a little more visible brushing

Summary:

All case dimensions are correct (or if 0,3 mm is a flaw for you – almost correct). All the issues with the V1 were corrected with the V2 – pearl, bracelet, black balance wheel. The bezel is great, the crystal AR is great. Movement is reliable and easy to fix if something goes wrong. The engravings on the dial are correct (but sometimes it happens that they have sharp edges, putting attention to this point is needed during the QC, especially blue and grey dials)

Overall It’s a great replica out of the box!

BEST current option is to get ZF watch (due to the correct crown guards shape + correct balance regulator pin on the movement) and an ORF bracelet (due to correct end links shape)

2. 2019 Seamaster Ceramic bezel Titanium case

Gen Specs:

· Width 43,5 mm

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 15 mm (I actually had to call my AD and ask him to source this info for me, cause they do not have that watch at stock)

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8806, METAS-certified

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 8100 USD

2019 VSF Seamaster Diver Titanium V2 Specs:

· Width 43,5 mm

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 14,5 mm

· Movement: Asian ETA 2824 decorated to Omega 8806 Caliber

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 410 USD

General info:

Main differences from a regular model are case dimensions, material, no DW, dial is made in a opposite way (its matte black with glossy waves)

Flaws I can see:

· Bezel dots look flat on VSF (Gen seems to have some depth)

· Pearl seems to be too deep on VSF

· Same issue with the crown guard being a little shorter (minor in my opinion)

Summary:

I think its still a great rep, all the flows are really minor.

3. Seamaster 300 “Spectre” Limited Edition

Gen Specs:

· Limited series – 7007 pieces

· Width 41 mm,

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 14,8 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8400

· Retail price: around 7500 USD

Seamaster 300 “Spectre” Limited Edition VSF V2 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 14 mm

· Movement: VSF 8400 Clone movement

· Price: around 370 USD (bracelet version)

Known issues:

· Dial on the version 2 was improved with better matte finish, now it looks similar to gen.

· Bezel teeth are still not improved. They are supposed to be rectangular shape, but VSF’s are circular shape.

· The font on the back cap is a little wrong. “Spectre” should have been written in bold font (kind of more dark), same as 007, but it’s written in a regular as all the other words.

· Seconds hand (lollipop one) has a nob on the top of it, instead of being round

· Some people claim bracelet has wrong spacing (I cant judge based on photos) and recommend getting MKF bracelet.

4. Aqua Terra 8500 / 8900 series

Gen 8900 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13,6 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8900, Co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 5700 USD

VSF Aqua Terra 8900 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: VSF 8900 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 380 USD (bracelet version)

Short comparison (based on owning both gen and rep):

· The dial looks absolutely perfect (even considering that my gen is another color, ive tried gen with the same white/orange) at my AD and I consider it “1:1”), it reflects light and changes color same as gen.

· All size dimensions and finishing are right. That 0,6mm thickness difference does not feel on the wrist at all.

· The weight is right. At least they do feel the same in hands. The bracelet is same light as on gen.

· You can actually see the difference in vph when you know its there and your seconds hands are aligned on both watches (it looks like 40 fps with 60 – smth like that, hard to describe)

· The main difference I found is the bracelet feel, it needs an oil bath for sure (mine got it, now its better)

· Clasp is a little loose, it does not feel on the wrist unless you actually tap on it.

· Also the closest colors are black and white, blue seems to have some purple shade in it (gen does not have it).

· Some people claim that the grey dial DW color is wrong (i went to my AD specifically to check that aspect, IMO it is fine)

Gen 8500 specs:

· Width 41,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 12,8 (13) mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, Co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 6000 USD

VSF Aqua Terra 8500 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 12 mm

· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 340 USD (bracelet version)

General info:

Main differences with AT 8900

· Size is a little different

· DW is at 3 marker on 8500 and at 6 at 8900

· Bracelet links are turned upside down on the newer 8900 (links are trapezoids, AT 8900 braclet has its links wide side up and 8500 wide side down)

· Different clasp design

Known issues:

· Blue dial is wrong color (VSF did not nail the blue color at all their reps) Black and white are really good.

· Thickness (just a little)

· Same situation with frequency

· Some people claim the bracelet a little thinner (controversial, did not find any confirmation)

Summary:

Both 8500 and 8900 models are really well repped by VSF. I did not find any info stating that VSF clone movements failed (both movements are available more than for a year), my watch smth also confirmed that the movement is pretty solid. So it will more depend on what design you prefer. Especially if you will choose black or white color.

Bonus

Updated VSF AT Spectre Gauss 15007 V2:

· New updated dial has its texture really well done (blue color is also correct), may be the ovals need to be a little more smooth – minor

· Rotor is well decorated (same 3D shape as gen)

Summury:

It absolutely is a winner in comparison with KW (with flat dial and flat rotor) version and a good rep to get.

5. De Ville Hour Vision

Gen Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 7700 USD

VSF De Ville Hour Vision 41 8500 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13,8 mm

· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 438 USD (leather strap version)

The actual comparison found here

Issues found:

· The dial circles surrounding the dial are wrong shape (they have to be engraved a little under the angle to the center of the dial).

· Those circles should have smooth angles (like a pipe) and VSF has them like rectangles.

· The DW window metal surrounding should go down flat till the actual DW (VSF one is not that deep and flat)

· The metal markers on the gen have a big angle on the top of them (while VSF ones are almost flat)

Summary:

Overall they nailed colors really good. Even the blue one. Case shape looks pretty good also. Dial and DW need improvements

6. De Ville Prestige (including Orbis)

Gen Specs:

· Width 39,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 10 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 2500, co-axial (its an ETA 2892-2 based movement with added co-axial escapement)

· The watch actually comes in A, B, C and D. AFAIK, C and D are 25,200 VPH while the A and B are 28,800 VPH.

· Retail price: around 3900 USD

MKF De Ville Prestige Specs:

· Width 39,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 10 mm

· Movement: Asian Clone ETA 2824-2

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 270 USD

MKF De Ville Prestige issues:

· Overall the dial is pretty good (however the white color seems a little off under some lightning)

· DW font is a little off (smaller than gen)

· Logo on the clasp looks bigger on MKF than on the gen

· Caseback engravings are deeper and wider on gen.

Summary:

Cant say why it is listed in the NWBIG list, but to my eye it should not be there (at least for now), I mean it’s a good rep, but some work still have to be done (pretty easy work).

RXW De Ville Prestige Orbis Specs:

· Width 39,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 10 mm

· Movement: Asian clone ETA 2892

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 290 USD

RXW De Ville Prestige Orbis issues:

· Leather strap color is too light blue comparing to gen

· Date font misalignments

Summary:

Overall it’s a very decent rep. But changing strap to gen is recommended. Also I recommend asking your TD to send you some more photos of DW with different numbers during QC process.

7. Constellation

Gen Specs:

· Width 38 mm

· Lug width 25 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 5900 USD

VSF Constellation 38 8500 Specs:

· Width 38 mm

· Lug width 25 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 390 USD

Issues found:

· Textured dial models have their texture pretty close, but still lacking the wave texture on the rhombus top right side (except that, they are pretty decent)

· Some colors of dials on VSF are lacking all the brushing, they just have a matte finished dial, when gen has brushed finish centered at the star on the dial. For example black dial lacks it, and brown has it right. I find this strange, but at least it looks like that now. And it’s a major flaw

· Also they have the same flow as the De Ville Hour Vision – The DW window metal surrounding should go down flat till the actual DW (VSF one is not that deep and flat), it’s a ladder shape, but needs to be flat and deep sitting

Summary:

Since those models are not that popular as some others, I do not really think we will ever get some improvements. And considering that even gens are not so popular in a wild, it will be hard to spot those imperfections. If you like it, you can go for it. I also contacted one TD for providing me some more info about some flat dials, cause its really hard to spot some things on the photos.

Source

 

Here is a long winded Q&A of what I’ve learned after purchasing about 20 watches on the cheap directly from Chinese sellers, bypassing DH and Ali. Don’t be alarmed at the length of the tutorial, once you do it once it is pretty easy.

I’m just going to assume since you are reading this your native language is English. And as always do your own research, this is not financial advise.

• How do I buy from China, I only speak English? Me too! Google translate is amazing. First thing you need is a buyer’s website, I am using www.sugargoo.com. Super easy to register, and I use paypal for payment.
• WTF is a sugargoo? I have no idea, but www.sugargoo.com is a website that will act as your personal shopper on China based websites. It looks like these websites sell to the people you are already buying from on DHgate and Aliexpress. Sugargoo is cutting out the middle man by buying for you direct.
• I’ve registered on sugargoo, now what? You need to find that sweet automatic “roleplay” watch all the kids are wearing now a days. First try searching on a Chinese based website like www.1688.com. Don’t even think about buying quartz either, people on this reddit will hunt you down and cut off a finger!
• How do I search www.1688.com, I only speak English? This is probably the hardest part of the whole process. If using Chrome, it usually just translates to English and you can just type in what you want. YOU WILL GET WILD PRODUCTS IN THE RESULTS! Some NSFW, so be careful.
  • I found the best way to search is by downloading an image of the watch. Could be an image of the gen watch or just one you found on DH gate that is out of your price range. Just use the camera icon in the search bar and select the image.
  • Another trick is to use the Google box. Go to https://translate.google.com/ and type in what you want to translate to Chinese simplified. Try ‘seamaster automatic watch’ and it comes out 海马自动腕表
    • Take 海马自动腕表 and plug it into the 1688.com search bar, but make sure to switch back over to simplified Chinese translation first in Chrome. And Bam! You have a nice list of sweet Omega Seamasters to buy, but also some other weird watches pop in there too.
• I found my dream Omega Seamaster but it’s $160, I thought this was supposed to be cheaper??!! No silly goose, it’s in Yuan. That’s actually $25 (exchange rate is about 0.15)
• Oh, cool that is cheaper. Now I can look like James Bond! No you cannot. James Bond wears a real Omega and is a rich athletic, super spy, that’s slick with the ladies. YOU are buying “roleplay” watches, driving a 2009 Toyota, and can’t do a single pullup.
• All true, but I want to buy that sweet watch anyway. How? That is simple, just copy the first part of the web address of that watch from 1688.com and paste it into the sugargoo.com search engine. This is one I actually purchased, https://detail.1688.com/offer/687033449495.html.
• Sugargoo says I have to add at least two watches to my cart, why? True, you are buying wholesale so most sellers require at least two watches. I typically find a seller that has various colors of a style I like and buy two. But I have been told on this Reddit, you can message the seller through Sugargoo first and ask to buy just one to check the quality. You can also add two to the cart and remove one before the final purchase. Then message the seller through Sugargoo after purchase. Only issue is, if the seller says no, the refund goes back as a credit on Sugargoo. Buyer beware. The message system is pretty quick and you can ask via the message button for any extras from the seller like watch boxes. Sugargoo is negotiating on your behalf.
• Wow, shipping only takes 4 days. Sweet! Stop being obtuse, it only takes a few days for the seller to ship to Sugargoo. Not to you, who lives in a different hemisphere. Once Sugargoo gets your watches, they take purty pictures and post them for your enjoyment. You can then return those watches if you don’t like the quality.
• I love my Seamaster’s from the pictures, how about shipping? There are a bunch of shipping options and time frames. Just click on the watches you want shipped and hit submit parcel. You can also research shipping cost under the ‘estimate shipping’ button. I typically wait until I have several watches to ship (Sugargoo holds your items for up to 100 days) and package them together. I just received package of 8 watches for $33 in shipping to the US. Beware, if you buy boxes to go with your watches the package will be too large for the cheaper shipping options. The cheap options have been very slow due to COVID (about 4 weeks). Here is a link to a discount code for redditers: https://www.reddit.com/r/Superbuy/comments/xd30hs/superbuy_long_term_discount_code_renew_again_add/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Pros: Very cheap alternative to DH and Ali.

Cons: Wacky search engine, required to buy more than one watch, no reviews or actual pictures from buyers attached to those reviews. Source

There are various materials used for watches that are labelled as “glass”. For example, plastics, mineral glass, sapphire coated mineral glass and pure sapphire crystal.

Mineral glass

We have to distinguish between untreated and tempered mineral glass. The chemical name is silicon dioxide (SiO2). Rock crystal and smoky quartz are closely related to mineral glass. By adding different oxides, such as aluminium oxide or boric oxide, mineral glass can be refined. This leads to better scratch resistance and hardness. In general, mineral glass is harder than plastic, it is neither osmotic nor does yellowing occur.

Though scratches cannot be as easily removed through polishing and the material can break. In the worst case, it splinters and can damage the movement and injure the person wearing it.

Mineral glass coated with a thin layer of sapphire

To compensate for the disadvantage of mineral glass, many manufacturers use mineral glass with a thin laye of sapphire, as this is only marginally more expensive. Erroneous, they often claim to have a ´sapphire glass´, which leads to significant misinformation of customers. The quality differences are huge compared to a pure sapphire glass. Therefore, when you are looking for a watch, you should always keep an eye on the type of sapphire glass that is used.

Plastics

As indicated by the name, the material consists of a plastic named polymethyl methacrylate (short: PMMA). This plastic is better known by the names Perspex, acryl glass, or hesalite glass. The main advantages of these materials are: They are very lightweight, relatively impact-resistant, easy to polish and quite cheap. The major disadvantage, given by the low density, is the significant vulnerability for scratches. UV rays and time may lead to yellowing of the material. Moreover, due to its osmotic characteristics, it can also be slightly water-permeable.

Pure sapphire glass

Although sapphire glass is transparent, the name “glass” is misleading. Sapphire glass contains a crystalline structure which makes it highly scratch-resistant. After the moissanite and the diamond, it is the third-hardest transparent material on the planet. Sapphire glass is made out of a pure synthetic sapphire (monocrystalline) which is produced from melted aluminium oxide (Al2O3). The production creates huge crystals which are cultivated by the means of electrolysis. Subsequently, the crystals are divided into slices and the shape of the watch glass is later time-consumingly cut out of these slices.

Consequently, domed sapphire glass is the best watch glass in the world. It might only break if extreme forces are encountered and can only be scratched with a diamond or moissanite. If you encounter any scratches on your sapphire glass, they are probably caused by aluminium and can be easily removed with a rubber.

A watch clasp is essentially the security system that binds the ends of a timepiece’s bracelet or strap together. Just like all the parts of a timepiece, the watch clasp is a significant element. It plays a huge role in terms of making sure the watch fits and is kept safely on our wrists. Without it, we would not be able to keep any watch secured around our wrists, and having one would be quite pointless.

Pin Buckle

Pin Buckle of Hamilton Khaki Aviation Ref. H76645540

One of the most popular types of watch clasps is the pin buckle. We are sure you have encountered this type of traditional watch clasp in many timepieces. This watch clasp goes by several names, so you might be a little confused about what to properly call it. It is also sometimes known as the “tang buckle or the Ardillon buckle.” Regardless, these terms are interchangeable and essentially mean the same thing.

The pin buckle functions similarly to how waist belts are used. A buckle, made mostly from metals like stainless steel, titanium, or in some rare cases, platinum, rests on the shorter end of the strap. A pin, also known as the buckle tongue, is placed right in the centre of this buckle. While wearing the watch, the longer side of the strap, with various adjustment holes, passes through the pin buckle. The pin is then inserted into one of the adjustment holes, allowing it to accommodate wrists of any size. The strap is then secured by the free loops placed just below the pin buckle.

Folding Clasp

Folding Clasp of Rado Captain Cook Ref. R32105313

Just like the pin buckle, the folding clasp is one of the most frequently employed types of watch clasps. This watch clasp variant is most often seen on metal bracelets. Depending on what type of material the bracelet is made from, the folding clasp usually follows its construction as well. As such, it can be made using stainless steel, titanium, platinum, or ceramic.

The folding clasp is typically composed of three components that simply lay over one another when being fastened onto the wrist. The clasp is then sealed shut in place by one or two protruding bolts, which are fitted into a designated lock. For instance, the image of the Rado Captain Cook Ref. R32105313 above shows off an unlocked folding clasp with its laid-out sections. You can also see the two push buttons that are used to release them.

The folding clasp is one of the most convenient types of watch clasps and it renders the watch very easy to both wear and remove at the same time. However, this can be a drawback at times because of how easy it is to unlock the folding clasp. You might find that the folding clasp is prone to unintentionally snapping open while the watch is being worn, especially if you are engaging in vigorous activities that jostle the clasp.

Deployant Clasp

Deployant Clasp of Omega Seamaster Ref. 233.92.41.21.03.001

Compared to the previous entries, the deployant clasp is a slightly more complicated type of watch clasp that combines both the pin buckle and the folding clasp. This clasp is made up of a metal pin buckle on one end, one or two folding sections in the middle, and a spring bar on the other end. The spring bar is attached to the shorter side of the watch strap, while the metal pin buckle is inserted into the longer side of the strap, which has multiple adjustment holes.

Once you have selected the right adjustment hold that ensures a snug fit on your wrist, clip the metal pin buckle down. Like the folding clasp, the folding sections of the deployant clasp can be laid over one another and clicked into place. The longer side of the strap is then tucked into the free loops of the strap.

The deployant clasp is usually made from stainless steel and sold separately from the watch. It is quite rare to find a timepiece that comes with the deployant clasp. In fact, many watch wearers tend to dismantle the traditional pin buckles on their leather straps before installing deployant clasps as replacements. This is because deployant clasps are easier to wear and provide more security than the traditional pin buckle.

Safety Deployment Clasp

Safety Deployment Clasp of Breitling Superocean Ref. A17367D71B1A1

For those seeking a watch that will not easily slip off of your wrist, the safety deployment clasp is probably one of the most secure types of watch clasps you can find. It operates just how a traditional folding clasp does, but with an added layer of protection. The safety deployment clasp has an additional flap that is sealed on top of the folding clasp, functioning as a reliable double lock mechanism.

Cartier deployment clasp for leather strap.

For a dive watch like the Breitling Superocean Ref A17367D71B1A1, which has to withstand strong underwater currents, the extra flap of its safety deployment clasp serves as an improved safekeeping system. With this type of clasp, you will not have to worry about accidentally opening the lock of your watch’s folding clasp, even as you explore the cavernous ocean depths. In the unfortunate circumstance that you do accidentally jolt your folding clasp open, the flap provides an additional level of security that ensures your watch will not just fly off your wrist.

Butterfly Clasp

Butterfly Clasp of Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0009

The butterfly clasp, also known as the hidden folding clasp, is a wonderfully seamless and subtle design. This type of watch clasp consists of two folding metal hinges. When the butterfly clasp is locked, both of its components are hidden on the inside of the bracelet, so that its exterior is presented as a consistent, immaculate display.

As demonstrated by the image of the Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0009 above, upon closing the butterfly clasp, its two foldable sections are kept hidden underneath the bracelet. Since the lock of the butterfly clasp is kept on the inside of the bracelet, pressed against your wrist, it is harder to jostle or accidentally open it. As a result, the butterfly clasp tends to be safer and more secure than a regular folding clasp.

One downside, however, is that this design might feel a little uncomfortable on your wrist, especially if you are wearing the watch for long periods of time.

Butterfly Clasp of Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0037

By simultaneously pressing the two push buttons of the clasp in the middle, you can unlock the clasp. This results in the butterfly clasp spreading its two uniform, foldable sections out in a symmetrical manner, resembling the wings of a butterfly, hence the catchy name of the clasp.

Sliding Buckle Clasp

Sliding Buckle Clasp of Seiko 5 Sports Ref. SRPD69K1

The sliding buckle clasp gives its wearers an especially hassle-free way of putting on a watch. The buckle of this clasp usually lies in the middle of the longer side of the strap. You can adjust the buckle at any time by simply sliding it along the bracelet. Attached to the other end of the bracelet is the metal clasp, which clamps down onto the sliding buckle and securely locks it in place.

When wearing a watch with the sliding buckle clasp, all you have to do is press the clasp down onto the buckle until it clicks shut. If you find that it does not fit quite right, simply slide the buckle either up or down the bracelet, until you have found the proper length that best suits your wrist size. This type of watch clasp can be seen on watches with stainless steel mesh bracelets, such as the Seiko 5 Sports Ref. SRPD69K1.

Diver Clasp

Diver Clasp of Citizen Promaster Ref. NY0125-83E

The diver clasp, more commonly known as the diver extension, is a type of clasp designed solely for professional dive watches. The composition of the diver clasp is actually quite similar to that of the folding clasp. The only difference is that the diver clasp has an additional built-in adjustment tool located underneath it. This adjustment feature can be operated to allow for either a tighter or looser fit. This allows for easy, efficient adjustment of the bracelet’s length. This is especially useful for divers who have to wear diving suits while underwater.

An example of a watch with the diver clasp would be the Citizen Promaster Ref. NY0125-83E. In order to utilise the adjustment tool of this watch’s clasp, simply press the two push buttons on the clasp, and then slide it in a forward or backward motion to change the length of the bracelet to your desired size. The diver clasp is locked in place by tooth-like notches, which serve as a reliable security feature that keeps the bracelet safely around your wrist.

Glidelock Clasp

Glidelock Clasp of Rolex Submariner Ref. 116610LN

In every sense of the word, the Glidelock clasp is essentially the same thing as a diver clasp and serves the same function. The primary difference is that the Glidelock clasp is patented by Rolex and operates in a slightly different way. As a result, the Glidelock clasp is found exclusively in Rolex dive watches, such as the Rolex Submariners and the Rolex Sea-Dwellers.

For instance, take a look at the Glidelock clasp on the Rolex Submariner Ref. 116610LN, pictured above. From the image, you can see that this Rolex watch’s Glidelock clasp has a couple of adjustment notches situated in the middle of the clasp. The fit of this bracelet is altered by snapping out the removable side of the clasp and then pushing it forward for a tighter fit or backwards for a looser one. The clasp is then secured in place by the adjustment notches in the centre. Once you have found the desired bracelet length, all you have to do is snap the clasp close in the same spot where you opened it.

Jewellery Clasp

Jewellery Clasp of Gucci Horsebit Ref. YA139507

The jewellery clasp is seen quite frequently in watches that cater solely to women. As can be seen from the Gucci Horsebit Ref. YA139507 above, the jewellery clasp is made up of two components: the latch and the hole. In a nutshell, the latch on one end of the bracelet goes through the hole on the other end of the bracelet. The latch is folded over the latter, clicks into place, and snaps shut with its own built-in locking mechanism.

The jewellery clasp tends to be very slim and demure, exuding elegance and femininity. This is why it is often used in timepieces for women. However, one big disadvantage of the jewellery clasp is that it only comes with one hole that can be latched onto. As a result, it is absolutely impossible to adjust the bracelet lengths of watches with jewellery clasps. This can pose some difficulty when it comes to finding fashionable women’s watches with suitable sizes for your wrist.

Velcro

Velcro Strap of Omega Speedmaster Ref. 311.30.42.30.01.005

Velcro is not necessarily considered a traditional watch clasp, but in the context of helping to fasten a watch’s strap in place, it sure functions as one.

Velcro works in a simple hook-and-loop manner. One long end of the textile or nylon strap is attached to tiny hook fasteners, while the other end is embedded with loop fasteners. When these two surfaces are pressed against each other, they cling to each other, in turn achieving a firm and secure fit around the wrist. One advantage of having a Velcro enclosure is that it is highly adjustable and can fit all types of wrist sizes.

The only GMT movement that ETA produce is the 2893. Enterprising folks in far off countries have modified 2836 movements for quite some time with a homebrew GMT complication added to the movement.

You can also do a more complicated swap by taking the balance wheel, pallet fork and escape wheel and replacing them on the 2836 movement to gain a low beat movement.

Here you can see the original 2836 movement on the left. I have removed and replaced the following components with the original swiss parts on the 2846. These are parts that are modified by the chinese factories to allow the GMT function.

Part 2595 – Date Jumper Maintaining plate – This part has been modified slightly to allow for the modified Intermediate Date Wheel

Part 2543 – Intermediate date wheel – This has a small secondary gearing placed atop the original gear. This turns the GMT wheel during the normal cycle of time. It meshes with a gear on the underside of the GMT wheel.

Part 242 – Canon Pinion with Driver – Taller canon pinion to account for the additional GMT wheel.

Part 255 – Hour Wheel – as above, taller to allow for new GMT wheel.

Part 2567 – Day Corrector – originally the part to allow quick setting of the day disc. Replaced with a new bi-directional gear that allows quick setting of the GMT hand.

Seen below is the GMT wheel itself. The upper gearing meshes with the gear running where the day corrector normally would and the gearing on the underside runs off the intermediate date wheel. And finally as installed on the finished movement with the brass washer in place.

Please note that this guide is mainly referring to EU when it comes to modders and genuine piece prices. Also, I won’t do photo comparisons between models since they are available in other threads. I think it is safe to say that you can follow this guide since I’ve been reading all available information on Daytona, but if you want in-depth research with pictures please do your own research.
I will also include links to all the parts I’m mentioning. The links will take you to JTimes store. I am not affiliated or sponsored by him (lol) but he’s my go to TD, so I use his links. Generally, any TD can get you any watch, just FYI.

The agenda for this guide is as followed:

1. Daytona’s worth buying on the market
2. Decide what’s important for you and figure out your budget
3. Different options for modding or frankening including current prices
4. Conclusion

With that being sad, lets dive in.

1. Daytona’s worth buying on the market

There are currently two makers who build the best Daytonas. Those are either BTF or CF, with both offering either the 116520 or 116500 version of this watch.

2. Decide what’s important for you and figure out your budget

116520

For the 116520 there is still more feedback required on BTF vs CF, however I believe both versions are good ootb.

116500

In general after looking at all the feedback, BTF is said to have a better case and better pushers, whereas CF has the better hands and dial. I believe if you don’t want to go the modding or frankening route CF is best ootb for both black and white dial.

3. Different options for modding or frankening, including current prices

Here it gets interesting and you now have to figure out what you want to do. If you are already happy with what I described in chapter 2, go ahead and buy whatever watch fits your needs, if not, make sure to extend your budget.

Modding means that you add other replica parts to the original watch to improve the looks of it, frankening means that you add genuine Rolex parts, also to improve the looks.

Note: in my opinion it does not make any sense to mod or franken an ARF.

116520

First you have to figure out whether you want blue (Chromalight) lume or green (Superluminova) lume. Chromalight lume dates back to watches produced after 2008/9, whereas Superluminova is the old lume. Both models linked above have Chromalight lume.

Note: If you opt for the SL lume, prices for genuine parts will be slightly cheaper, but parts like the clasp will not match the build.

Modding

Needs more feedback.

Frankening 116520

First of all, there is no limit to Franken a watch. I will only focus on what I consider to be the most important genuine parts for Frankening the 116520. Please keep in mind that the prices stated below are from my personal experience. Side note: as of January 2020, pieces like a Dial are exchange only (before it was like that on most parts of the EU except Italy). Now the regulations hit Italy too and prices are rising while parts are getting more and more scarce. As of End 2022 prices for genuine parts have increased due to the scarcity since 2020, updated.

Superluminova (prices for dial and hands outdated as I do not have the correct SL prices on hand right now, so please disregard them)

Parts I would definitely suggest getting:

• Genuine Dial (700€ used – 1.000€ new)
• Genuine Hands (300€ used – 350€ new)
• Genuine Bezel: (500€ used – 800€ new)

Optional parts:

• Genuine clasp to match the correct SL period (around 500€ but hard to get)
• Genuine crown + tube (around 200€ – 250€)
• Genuine crystal + gasket (around 300€)
• Genuine chrono wheel (4130-820) to fit the chronograph seconds hand (around 120€)
• ARF bracelet without clasp (150€ for the bracelet – 50€ for reselling the clasp)

Optional services:

• Repolishing and rebrushing the bracelet by Tomrep makes the bracelet look extra nice
• Servicing the 4130 movement by either red1 or dmuit

As you can see, frankening can get very expensive. Even with the basic build and used parts you would spend around 2.000€, not considering the price for your watchmaker.

Chromalight (updated)

Parts I would definitely suggest getting:

• Genuine Dial (2.500€ used – 2.900€ new)
• Genuine Hands (500€ used – 600€ new) note: those hands are very hard to find right now
• Genuine Bezel: (600€ used – 900€ new)

Optional parts:

• Genuine crown + tube (around 200€ – 250€)
• Genuine crystal + gasket (around 300€)
• Genuine chrono wheel (4130-820) to fit the chronograph seconds hand (around 120€)
• ARF bracelet and clasp (150€)

Optional services:

• Repolishing and rebrushing the bracelet by Tomrep makes the bracelet look extra nice
• Servicing the 4130 movement by either red1 or dmuit

Same here, Chromalight prices are even higher as compared to Superluminova. But the genuine parts definitely make a huge difference in comparison to replica parts. If you want to spend that much is up to you.

116500

This version only has chromalight parts, so it gets easier on that end. However, finding genuine parts like the dial or the bezel is very hard or rather close to impossible. I only saw one sale of a 116500 bezel which went for 2.000€ used (in 2020).

Modding Light

There is a problem with the black dialed BTF version as we already learned. The current BTF sub dials are too shiny. You would have to buy CF dial from your TD. Then swap the CF dial into the BTF base and call it a day.

Depending on how important this is to you, I would probably wait for updated sub dials on the black dialed version.

For the panda version I dont think you have to do any modding. Just buy the 116500 stock.

Modding/ Frankening

As already mentioned above, genuine 116500 parts like a dial and bezel are impossible to get and will not be considered. However, you can still improve your 116500 BTF with other parts and make it as good as it can get:

• Genuine Coronet from donor dial on the CF dial (~100€)
• Genuine Hands (500€ used – 600€ new) note: those hands are very hard to find right now
• Genuine crown + tube (around 200€ – 250€)
• Genuine crystal + gasket (around 300€)
• Genuine chrono wheel (4130-820) to fit the chronograph seconds hand (around 120€)

Optional services:

• Repolishing and rebrushing the bracelet by Tomrep makes the bracelet look extra nice
• Servicing the 4130 movement by either red1 or dmuit

With this build the watch is as good as it gets without going for a full gen movement or even bracelet. Again, it depends on you how much you plan on spending. I went for this route with the full optional services since the Daytona is by far my grail watch.

4. Conclusion

It all depends on what you want from your rep. For the 116520, both makers offer a great value for what it is.

For the 116500 however I believe going the BTF route (for Panda) is the best out of the box. If you want to go further you can get an 116500 CF dial when going black dial or prepare your wallet. Source

I will be going through each reference with the correct dial configurations for each reference one post for Paul Newman and another for non Paul newman.

Let’s get started with the NON newmans.

6239 (Steel bezel and pump pushers)

CORRECT

Essentially there are 3 widely accept dial variants for the 6239 non paul newman daytona. All found in both black and silver.
1) The dial has Rolex, Cosmograph and daytona all together at the 12 o’clock.
2) The dial has Rolex, Cosmograph at 12 and daytona wrapped around the 6 subdial
3) Double swiss underline (this dial to be correct on the watch requires a steel bezel graduated to 300 instead of the regular 200 units)

INCORRECT

There are NO 6239 dials with “OYSTER” on the dial, this is due to the gen not featuring screw down pushers.

6241 (Black acrylic bezel and pump pushers)

CORRECT

There are 2 widely accepted dial variants for NON newman daytonas 6241
1) The dial has Rolex, Cosmograph and daytona all together at the 12 o’clock.
2) The dial has Rolex, Cosmograph at 12 and daytona wrapped around the 6 subdial

INCORRECT

There are NO 6241 dials with “OYSTER” on the dial, this is due to the gen not featuring screw down pushers.

6263 (Black Acrylic bezel and screw down pushers)

CORRECT

The 6263 has many variants of dials but there are 3 most common both in black and silver.
1) “BIG RED” This dial variant has Rolex, Oyster, Cosmograph at the 12 and a Big Red Daytona wrapped around the 6 Oçlock subdial.
2) “Sigma dial” This dial variant has Rolex, Oyster, Cosmograph at the 12, NO big red daytona and a sigma signature on either side of T swiss T.
3) “Big Eyes”Basically larger subdials with no sigma signature and no big red daytona. Extremely rare.

6265 (Steel bezel and screw down pushers)

CORRECT

The 6265 has many variants of dials but there are 3 most common both in black and silver.
1) “BIG RED” This dial variant has Rolex, Oyster, Cosmograph at the 12 and a Big Red Daytona wrapped around the 6 Oçlock subdial.
2) “Sigma dial” This dial variant has Rolex, Oyster, Cosmograph at the 12, NO big red daytona and a sigma signature on either side of T swiss T.
3) “Big Eyes”Basically larger subdials with no sigma signature and no big red daytona. Extremely rare.

This is a condensed version with no transitional references and no ultra rare double signed stuff. More info can be found on https://www.vintagedaytona.com/en/reference-guide.

NEWMAN REFERENCES

6239 (Steel bezel and pump pushers)

The 6239 Paul newman has 2 main dial variants:
1) White dial 3 colour with red minute track and red daytona with the text “Rolex, Cosmograph”
2) Black dial 3 colour with red minute track and red daytona with the text “Rolex, Cosmograph”

6241 (Acrylic bezel and pump pushers)

The 6241 Paul newman has 2 main dial variants:
1) White dial 3 colour with red minute track and red daytona with the text “Rolex, Cosmograph”
2) Black dial 3 colour with red minute track and red daytona with the text “Rolex, Cosmograph”

6263 (Acrylic bezel and Screw down pushers)

The 6263 Paul newman has 2 main dial variants:
1) PANDA White dial 2 colour with white minute track with the text “Rolex, Oyster, Cosmograph”
2) RCO Black dial 3 colour with red minute track and red daytona with the text “Rolex, Cosmograph, Oyster”

NOTE THAT NO WHITE DIAL 6263s HAVE A RED MINUTE TRACK AND RED TEXT

WRONG

6265 (Steel bezel and Screw down pushers)

The 6265 Paul newman has 1 main dial variant:
1) PANDA White dial 2 colour with white minute track with the text “Rolex, Oyster, Cosmograph” Source

We do not have any good out of the box reps of pre-ceramic models, and gens are not gonna be any cheaper, hope you find this thread usefull for building your SMP’s.

I have focused on those seven models, all chronographs and GMTs are out as I am unsure whether we can use any modern rep case.

For all those pre-ceramic builds you can use MKS/MKF case. Yes… the maker is advertising them as SMPc reps, but in fact those MK crownguards and lugs are correct for pre-ceramic. MK mid-case has the same height as gen, and it takes the gen crystal, crown/tube and helium/tube without any epoxy.
Kind of the tricky part is with a bezel assembly. If you install a gen spring-wire – most likely gen bezel will get jammed or it will be very hard to turn it. This is because gen spring is too tight for MK case. Either you can mod the gen spring (re-bend it) or buy a thinner (jeweller’s) wire and make your custom bezel assembly.

If you ever disassembly a gen SMPc bezel, you will learn there is a new part. It is an extra gasket, probably Omega decided to use it to minimise any shock damage on ceramic insert. This new gasket is 298ZW6007 (fi37.35 / 0.36 / 0.8mm).

Do not buy gen or rep bracelets for chronographs. Chronographs’ bracelets do look almost the same as non-chronograph bracelet, but they are not the same. SELs are different and chronograph’s SEL will give you a bad fit.

How to read Omega crystals:
SN – no AR coating
SA – AR multilayer coating on one side (inner coating)
SB – AR multilayer coating on both sides
At some point in the time, Omega did a transition and all SN crystals have been discontinued and replaced by SA.

Cannon pinions are skipped, as I couldn’t find any logic here. I’ve seen 2351’s with H0 and H2… and seen 2254’s with H1 and H3..
So calibre 1120 itself had at least 4 variations here.
2500 calibre looks the same – many cannon pinions are available. As per my eye I THINK that all watches with applied indexes have used H3, or taller.
If anyone can chime in something more valuable here, please do so.

The hand height code

Casebacks.

I did not enlist any caseback part numbers, mostly because usually they are not visible, and while you will finally find one on the market – they are bloody expensive.
However, there are 3 layouts of the caseback, but in fact you can find 5 variations of the caseback.
This is because so called “Omega Globe”.
Omega tells us they introduced that globe as a new anti-counterfeit security, but true is they used it to combat greymarket, mainly – to sue Costco.
Omega never announced when they started engraving this globe, but Costco lawsuit was in 2007, so all post-2007 watches should have this globe.
First watch with the globe which I have seen was 2003, so 2003-2007 is a somewhat of a grey area – those casebacks can have it, but it is not a must (see Period Correct section in below).

Parts for Automatic/quartz/full-size/mid-size.
Thing is the world is full of mid-size quartz for sale and parts for automatic full-size watches are like unicorns.
Especially the dials can be an expensive mistake, so here is a chart how to tell the correct dial without knowing its part number.

I did a gfx for 3 models only. but you should be able to see the pattern.

Also mind that hands for quartz movement won’t fit your Asian ETA as quartz hands and automatic hands are not interchangeable.

Being Period Correct:

Late 2011 2220.80’s were fitted with updated calibre – 2500D so it is possible to build such watch but I do not know a part’s reference number for this date wheel.
That btw is very good example of the transitional watch.

Be carefull when you buy the parts for Big triangle/Sword hands models.
Omega has offered those watches in both – in steel and in titanium. Titanium came out first (circa 1998) so on the market there may be more parts for titanium watches.
Both, steel and titanium watches have Superluminova but it has a different colours. Luminosity on titanium dials/hands is more whiter and lume on parts from steel watches is more greenish. Avoid mixing them or during a daylight you will see a mismatch in the colour of the lume.

Tritium.
Tritium was used on the regular dive watches and chronograph watches, but only models with skelotonized hands have had it.
“Tritium sword hands watch” simply does not exist.
As you can see here we have only one SMP with tritium. It was 2531.50.00 produced between 1993 – late 1996/1997.
While there were never any ‘T’s used on this dial – here is how to tell the difference between tritium and superluminova.

Pretty fresh service dials – the difference in matte vs glossy lume application is a pretty obvious tell.

Also, the writting has changed slightly.
– 3 in “300” and 1 in “1000” do have small serifs on tritium dial,
– “ft” symbol is flat on a tritium dial and it is tall on superluminova dial.

If you ask me.. tritium 2531 is a sweet project worth bothering. It is the sleeper, a future collectibles.

Early production SMP.
If you are very much into this model, you know that the first batch of this watch was somehow different than all later 2531’s.
I am referring to 1993 – mid.1994 watches powered by 1109 calibres.
Those models had more aesthetical differences, like:
> dial without the “Chronometer” writting (but it is neither the Quartz dial layout),
> case number 168.1503/196.1503,
> helium valve with a bold cap (no logo),
> bracelet was still 1503/825, but SEL were not stamped. Also; SEL, clasp-links and clasp have a different shapes than what we know from the later 1503/825 bracelets.

Over the watch fora there is a story that first batch was delivered to the Italian ADs only. Omega never confirmed that. While this is a cool story it is not really true as those watches have been seen sold with the papers issued by the ADs from various countries.
I have skipped this early production model as parts are not dime a dozen and quite frankly this watch itself in general is considered as fugly and not really collectible, yet.
It may have change down the road in next 10-20 years, who knows.

Here are some pics of the early automatic “no-cosc” watch.

 

 

This watch is also reffered as 2531.86.00, though Omega’s watchfinder does not have any record for such reference number.
Anyway, try to avoid purchasing 090ST1231 case tube. This is early production part and it is a push-in tube, all other (later) tubes are threaded tubes.

Helium valves.
We do have two valves, of course the caps are the obvious but not the only difference.
Some parts like a screw and gaskets are the same but in general do not assume that all smaller parts are interchangeable.
I think the easiert way is to buy a complete valve, in case you ever need to assembly one from the small parts – here is the spec.

Happy frankening.