Written by Asalamu-alaykum

I have recently started digging a bit deeper and went to the world of China. It’s the age old question “How much do our watches cost for TDs?”, “Is it possible to buy directly from the factory?”. To cut it short, this post will not be answering those but I will be revealing how much of a “premium” TD’s charge you and the problems I see in this community.

PRICE FIXING

Let’s talk quickly about the big elephant in the room. Price Fixing…. It’s a big issue in all TDs. This just screws us the buyer by them making this “monopoly” on prices. All prices seem to be the same with any TD which if you think about isn’t “normal”. I know a lot of old members of reptime know that reps are always cheaper in China but do you actually know how big the difference is? Let’s find out.

I picked some popular models here and will show you how big the differences are from your TD’s and Actual Local China Prices:

Noob Daytona 116500LN-WHITE V4

*Price converted from Yuan to USD*

TD 1:

Noob Panda Daytona V4 =$688 + $35 (shipping) = $723

“Chinese TD” price= $584.23 + $12.30 = $596.53

Difference = $126.47

TD 2:

Noob Panda Daytona V4 =$688 + $0 (Free shipping promo) = $688

“Chinese TD” price= $584.23 + $12.30 = $596.53

Difference = $91.47

VSF Rolex Submariner 126610LN

*Price converted from Yuan to USD*

TD 1

VSF Rolex Submariner 126610LN = $468 + $35 (shipping) = $503

“Chinese TD” price = $392 + $12 = 404

Difference = $99

TD 2:

VSF Rolex 126610LN = $458 + $0 (Free shipping promo) = $458

“Chinese TD” price = $392 + $12 = 404

Difference = $54

VSF Rolex Submariner 116610LN

*Price converted from Yuan to USD*

TD 1

VSF Rolex Sub 116610LN = $428 + 35 (shipping) = $468

“Chinese TD” = $346 + $12 (shipping) = $358

Difference = $110

TD 2

VSF Rolex Sub 116610LN = $428 + 0 (Free shipping promo) = $428

“Chinese TD” = $346 + $12 (shipping) = $358

Difference = $70

VSF Rolex Datejust

*Price converted from Yuan to USD*

TD 1

VSF Rolex Datejust = 468 + 35 = $503

Chinese TD” = $376.73 + $12 (shipping) = $388.73

Difference = $114.27

TD 2

VSF Rolex Datejust = 468 + 0 (Free Shipping Promo) = $468

Chinese TD” = $376.73 + $12 (shipping) = $388.73

Difference = $79.27

ZF AP 15500

*Price converted from Yuan to USD*

TD 1:

ZF AP 15500 = $478 + $35(Shipping) = $513

“Chinese TD” = $384.44 + $12 (shipping) = $396.44

Difference = $116.56

TD 2:

ZF AP 15500 = $478 + $0 (Free Shipping Promo) = $478

“Chinese TD” = $384.44 + $12 (shipping) = $396.44

Difference = $81.56

As we can see, TD’s charge us an $50-130 premium which is outrageous imho. Imagine paying more than needed, you won’t pay $100 for a $50 bill right? XD This “Price Fixing” and “White Tax” seems to happen with almost every watch they sell compared to Local Chinese Price. This is consistent throughout all TDs except for the TD’s that does special offers which is a positive change that I’m seeing.

REAL COST OF SHIPPING

Have any of you ever wondered where this number $35 for shipping came from? 4PX website? Nope. Shipping is severely overpriced here. I’ll be presenting you my conversation and showing the real price.

I live in Asia and this is my transaction with them. They asked for an old 4PX tracking number which I gave them. I gave them the 4PX tracking number I got from Hontwatch. I can tell the speed of this 4PX and my old one was the same and they even verified and used the same 4PX shipping method all the TD’s use here. They charged me 55RMB which is like $8 while other TD’s here charged me $35. Complete rip-off.

I know majority of you guys are from the United States so I asked them. One user here donated their 4PX tracking number they got Geektime. I sent it to them and here’s what they said.

80RMB! Wow! That’s like $12 but you guys are paying $35 for 4PX. I dislike the dishonesty TD’s here do. They already put a “premium” on the watches they sell to us but now are charging another “premium” in shipping.

How can we trust your source?

Good Point! Always do your own research! but here’s some real strong evidence.

When I asked them about the shipping cost and they gave me this screenshot of their conversation with 4PX representatives. That’s already solid evidence right there. This is the honesty I want from a dealer when I purchase. I want them to be transparent as much as possible. Shipping is not something for them to add a “fee” on just because they feel like this.

So great! I already received my first watch from them but I ordered 3 more watches from them. They told me shipping me would be 120RMB. I asked why it was 120RMB when it was like 91.5RMB. They gladly helped me out and sent me this:

As you can see, they got nothing to hide. They said I ordered 3 watches and each watch was 400 grams total. 400 grams x 3 Watches = 1.2kg. Those screenshots is the actual website of 4PX and it shows the real cost of shipping. They charge me by the weight which is how “normal” shipping cost is calculated and not just some “$35” fakey price. I dare any TDs at reptime to show us the 4PX website and explains to us why shipping is $35 for them :>

It really doesn’t make any sense if you charge the same amount regardless if your one country away from China or on the other side of the world. That’s not how shipping works for any normal business.

COMMUNICATION

Ok bud… Cheap watch deals must mean SHITTY and slow communication. Absolutely not. If I stayed in reptime, I would have been stuck thinking “If I want to get a good deal on my watch, I have to be fine with Shitty QC and Shitty & Slow communication… Watch-VS guys proved me wrong. Communication was FAST. To put it in your perspective, I never had to wait more 30 minutes for a reply from them. I live in Asia and they deal mostly with Chinese so that can explain why they replied so fast to me but I chat with the TD’s here that also live in Asia time zones and they never replied to me this fast before.

People in reptime seem to baby TDs just because they are selling them watches for “cheaper” price. Majority of the TD there are slow to reply. They can take from an hour to a day to respond (Mirotime hasn’t even replied back to me for over 3 weeks when I inquired). It’s just poor service being tolerated honestly.

Buddy I see you chatted them in Chinese? Can they speak English?

I’m Asian but even I don’t know how to speak Chinese fluently. Solution? Google translate man! I also suggest chatting them in WeChat since it allows you to auto translate all their messages!

Here’s a quick tutorial:

They are very helpful and willing to understand my broken Chinese XD. Now that’s communication!

Buddy, Why is their Communication so FAST compared to our TDs here?

They RE-INVEST back in their Business. Unlike the TD’s who have a monopoly on all sales, they are constantly competing with other Chinese TDs which leads to better service! Simple! Capitalism!

They got 3 WeChat Teams to assist any buyer. This is the BEST organization I seen on any dealer I met. I personally chatted dou-biao and he/she was wonderful! Very helpful! Very Fast to communicate! I asked a LOT of stupid questions cause I’m not comfortable sending $400 of my hard earned money to some random guy in China but the way he talked to me made me have so much confidence. I took the risk for this community and bought with my money to experiment with them. I got to say I don’t regret anything.

How’s the QC????

QC is actually a common practice in China. Their QC is TOP-NOTCH for me. They do their own QC as confirmed by u/alakasam (when they RL’d themselves a wonky 12’o clock marker on his VSF Omega). Their QC process I actually believe. I have personally bought 4 watches from them and I agreed to all their QC but you be the judge:

Here’s all 4 QC I received from them:

VSF 126610LN

VSF 116610LN

VSF 116613LB

NOOB Pam 111

All their QC was SUPER HELPFUL. It’s like Ghetto Fat Panda QC video for me XD

QC video actually showed them:

-Test all the DATES (So you can see if there any “low” or “high” date numbers)

-Test what time the Date flipped

-Test the Hacking, Time setting, Screwing of Crown

-Second Hand Sweep

-Glidelock operation

-Bezel Operation

Buddy, Those QC pics looked ass. you know I like to frame my QC pictures on the wall after I get them, tsk tsk

Ok bud. Go to Mirotime or Fatpanda and they’ll happily send you better QC pictures. I often wonder the obsession with QC pictures. I much rather have a Dealer who actually CHECKS the watch and not just send QC pics to me like some kind of Robot. I’ve seen the other day a QC with a god awful low date and the TD’s still insisted to send it to the customer. It’s a waste of time for both us to go back and forth with these dealers and them offloading RL’d watches instead of returning it to the factory.

For me and most, these QC pictures are good and clear enough to spot any flaws. The QC video was sent automatically. Yes! I didn’t need to go back and forth with them to get these QC videos or even request them. They did it automatically. All of them had timegrapher readings which was nice even at this low price point, they offered all this to me and I didn’t need to send a message requesting for QC timegrapher pics all the time. and YES, you can request for extra and more clear pics if needed. u/washedaio said to me that they sent the new QC pictures he requested within minutes! Incredible Speed!

CUSTOM PROTECTION

If custom is big problem for you and you have 1/3 your rep packages seized by customs. Please stay with the TD’s here. They will have to replace your watch. My dealer has told me specifically they will not replace the watch if customs seize it. I live in Asia and customs here are loose. I can always grease some hands if it gets seized XD.

So here’s my problem with the TD’s here. They charge you a higher price because they offer custom protection…. Why don’t they state this? It’s like they aren’t being transparent with you. I would much rather have TD say “the watch is $350, shipping is $12 and additional $50 for custom protection” so I have an idea and not just “random” fees here and there!

Is Custom Protection a scam? This is a completely different conversation so I won’t tackle this too much here. I personally don’t think it’s needed. Unless your shipments, get seized 9/10 times, I much rather save the profits in my cash. Plus, TDs are known for backing out with custom protection saying “It’s only been 1 month, please wait 4 months more until I refund you $200” or “My job is to get it in your country, your postal service lost it. Not my problem”.

They are SELLING FAKE factory watches, BUYING Wholesale priced RL’d watches in bulk

NO. They don’t need to. The prices I showed you are just their Retail prices. Not even wholesale or bulk price order. This is a big myth so please stop saying “Hont selling RL’d watches he buy in Bulk” He doesn’t need to do that. He already making bank regardless even at his “special sale” price 😉

Here’s proof:

I ordered a VSF 126610LN from them:

Here’s more Photos and a Video of me testing all the functions:

MORE PHOTOS

VIDEO

Fake VSF? Just V6F crap?

To bring context, Mirotime (TD) did a promotion on reptime which was selling “VSF” submariners for $408. This was great for us but people realized they were “scamming” us by selling cheaper reps (V6F). My contacts in China seem to agree with this. Mirotime (TD) returned all the replicas since they were essentially caught in the act.

I asked my dealer about this and this what they sent me:

You can see it’s the proper Serial Number for VSF. S19 is a VSF serial number and not V6F. They are very transparent with this. I’m pretty sure Trustytime wasn’t lying when they said those things about “VSF serial numbers”. I’m pretty confident Mirotime was caught selling V6F as VSF but what do I know right?

Honest people who were selling “real” VSF but they were just “70% VSF” wouldn’t need to do this Apology thing and have to return all those watches back to factory. Oh well…

PACKAGING

Both the Chinese Dealer and TD watches arrived safely but I do appreciate my Chinese Dealer shipping my Watch in a bigger box with this “BIG” bubble wrap. I work in the Packaging industry and can tell you that what my Chinese Dealer used is LEAPS better than the thin foam I got from a TD here. I bought 2 watches from him shipped in box and I can tell my Chinese Dealer used an even bigger box than what the TD used for my 2 watches. Both way of Shipping is safe and secure but I much rather have more protection than less.

SPEED OF SERVICE

I’m tired of seeing people saying “Waiting 9 days for QC pictures :)” and everyone being like that normal. Complete Bullshitto! I don’t know why TD’s here are slow as sh*t but it’s not hard to get a watch in China. It literally takes 2 days to get most watches.

Here’s a time line of my purchase experience with them:

March 3 – First Contact

March 5 – Made Payment for VSF 126610LN via Transferwise to Alipay

Match 7 – They contacted me late at night (10pm). They got the watch and they sent me the QC pictures & video the same hour. They informed me the timegrapher will be sent the next day.

March 8 – Timegrapher Numbers sent

March 8 – Shipped. They sent me pictures and even told the exact time 4PX picked up the package

Me buying 3 watches:

March 17 – Inquired to buy 3 watches

March 17 – Payment sent via Transferwise to Alipay

March 17 – They already had the VSF 116610LN. Sent me a picture but No QC yet. They said they’ll send QC the next day

March 18 – VSF 116610LN QC pictures and Timegrapher Sent. GL for me and them

March 18 – They had gotten the VSF 116613LB. Sent me a picture of them getting it but no QC yet. They will send the next day they said.

March 19 – VSF 116613LB QC picture & video with Timegrapher Sent.

March 19 – Last watch gotten from factory (NOOB PAM 111). They sent me initial pics and said QC will be sent the next day.

March 20 – QC pictures & video with timegrapher sent.

March 20 – All 3 watches shipped. They sent me pictures of the packages and even told the exact time 4PX picked up the package again.

3 days from Order, All watches shipped already. Now that’s FAST!

I understand VSF watches are extremely popular right now so explains how they got it so fast but the Noob PAM 111 is not a popular watch yet they still got it in 2 days. Why can’t the TD’s here get them faster? Why is it normal to wait like a week to get QC pictures? Why are we so fine allowing TD’s to keep offloading RL’d watches for weeks? I’ve a shitty VSF Omega floating in this subreddit for 5 weeks. Just f*cking return it to the factory or sell it for factory price. I don’t appreciate how TD’s can just waste our time playing this cat and mouse game with watches that they themselves should have RL’d.

REPUTATION OF THIS WATCH-VS

It’s funny how these “Trusted Dealers” are just accepted here just because they pay the mods in RWI, RepGeek, RHforum, etc. We’re just suppose to trust them just because they pay the mods in replica forums and keep them happy so they’ll give us like 2% more chance they’ll help us out if shit happens? Has anyone ever thought why? These “helpful” mods who have been caught already helping TD’s ship RL’d watches, corruption, and keep shitty TD’s on the list because “they believe in them and don’t see enough proof”

When Kurvasit escaped and basically scammed a bunch of people? What did the mods at Repgeek do? Nothing. They didn’t refund anybody their cash back. Just black listed or suspended Kurvasit and boom. That the solution. Basically, nothing imho.

TD’s are known to shell out RL’d and shitty watches to Noobs. TD’s are known to back out from their customs protection. TD’s are known to hide flaws in their QC. TD’s are known to offer little to no help after sales. I literally saw one TD here shipped a watch where they hid the flaw of the AR under the crystal being scratched in the QC pictures and when the customer complained “they offered $20 and a new crystal or send the watch back in China”

Majority of the people forget that the Western market isn’t the biggest market of Replica Factories. It’s Asians. The amount of Chinese Dealers in China are INSANE. They mostly sell to locals but happy to sell to foreigners as well 🙂 Just be careful of “White Tax” XD. You can literally get lost in the dealer in China competing with one another. My dealer got 11k followers and are very competitive in their pricing.

Your Dealer must be some Kurvashit right?

Nope. They are pretty big in China (11,000 followers in Weidan). I’m not saying they are the biggest or sell the cheapest but they certainly are very competitive with their prices. You can definitely find way way cheaper prices in China but I do not recommend buying from “shady” dealer. I STRESS IN THIS POST, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY. I don’t want people to message me after saying “I bought from NOOB24KGOLD888 store and didn’t get anything”.

What’s the Warranty?

My dealer have told me I get a 2 Year warranty from the factory but I’ll have to pay shipping back to China. I personally never recommend shipping anything back to China due to the cost of shipping and the risk. I suggest you use the savings you get from buying from them and pay your local watch smith to service your watch if anything goes wrong.

PAYMENT METHODS

Most Chinese Dealers only accept Alipay and WeChat Pay for sales. My dealers used to accepts Paypal but is currently unavailable. Solution? Tranferwise!

Transferwise is what I use to send payment. Transferwise has a feature so you can send payment to Alipay in China. I deal with CNY price with them and pay them in CNY price with Transferwise. I’m happy to help anyone who needs any help in Transferwise payments 🙂

What Shipping Company should I use?

I recommend 4PX. Most of my mates from other countries and myself prefer 4PX cause it passes customs like butter and is the best value for me. It’s cheap and fast. Make sure to request 4PX or the courier you like when you order from any non-TD to ensure less chances of custom seizure.

Who’s your dealer?

My dealer is Watch-VS. Here’s their website. They are pretty well-established in China. They aren’t some shady small seller. They sell hundreds per week to locals (explains why their price doesn’t have white tax). They got 11,000 followers. They are constantly make their own “fake vs genuine” videos which you can view in their website. They don’t charge foreigners with White Tax.

How to order from them?

You can buy directly from their Weidan (you need an agent) but what I do is buy directly from their WeChat. They are very helpful and fast to reply so buying is easy enough for me:

1. I get a picture of the watch I want from their website.

2. I send it to them. They tell me the price of the watch and cost of shipping and give me the total amount I need to pay (Please talk in CNY and not US dollar)

3. I open my Transferwise and send it to their AliPay account. (PM if you need help)

4. I wait a day or two for my QC photos and video to arrive. (They say 3-5 but you can check my timeline, they are usually wayyy faster)

5. They will send me pictures and videos of the watch. They often check and inspect the watch themselves but you can raise your concerns as well. You can post QC at reptime and Tag me. I’ll be more than happy to help.

6. If I GL, they will send me the pictures of the packages and they will even notify me when 4PX pick up the package from them (love the transparency).

7. I will CHUFF my bits and enjoy my new watch 🙂

TRANSPARENCY

I’ve provided you all the screenshots of my conversation with them. You can see they never overpriced me on shipping or the watches. They sent me the actual watch that I paid for. It’s not a fake VSF. It’s a real VSF 126610LN with a VS 3235 movement. They showed me proof of 4PX shipping and it’s actual cost. They even showed me the 4PX website shipping fee calculator. They haven’t tried to hide anything in the QC pictures. I got the watch. QC showed no flaws. I received it. No flaws as well.

MY MESSAGE TO REPTIME

I’ve been a member at reptime for quite a long time. I have not taken any payments from any dealer including this one. I do a lot and contribute a lot in this community. I’m happy to QC and help noobies out in my PMs. This post isn’t meant like I said in the beginning to bash any TD’s, Replica Forums, or anyone. I just want to enlighten everyone about the situation.

I have found these guys from a comment a redditor made who lives in China. I did my own research before I bought from them. All this is me making everything crystal clear to you guys. All of this is my best way in spreading awareness among this community. I have personally gotten a VSF 126610LN from them for only $390 shipped. I have bought 3 more watches from them which I’ll be posting once I get them. I put a lot of time making infographics and some memes to keep everyone entertained in this read. I hoped you enjoy and learnt something.

My main point is that if my Chinese dealer can give me Great Communication, Fast Replies, Good QC pictures and Video, and manage to sell it $60-130 cheaper than any TD here. Why can’t the TD’s here reinvest their profit in actual service? Why are we fine with TD’s replying 2 days later and sending QC a week later if we’re already paying them $130 premium? Why do keep defending TD’s who give out bad service just because they sell it “cheaper”? I have already proven that cheaper isn’t really cheapest. I have “gambled my own cash for betterment of this community”. I want TD’s here to listen and know that we know how much they profit they make of us and we want better service.

CONCLUSION:

TD’s charges us a premium on Watches and Shipping. I have explained all this on the text above. Provided real strong evidence and screenshots of this.

You only bought one watch so far…. I have bought 4 bud. I got 3 on the way and only received one so far. I will post wrist shots and sexy pics as soon as I get them. You can check the QC above if you want to “see” them 🙂

TD’s need to step their sh*t up. Now I shown you what my dealer can do. I want TD’s to improve. Invest in communication. Invest in Higher QC pictures. Invest more time in chatting the customers. Don’t rely on old Monopoly style business. It’s simply the end user (you, the customer) being screwed the most. We are paying more for the watch yet receiving less………….

Right then! Let me buy from a non-TD and complain here if I get scammed. Please don’t be this guy. I spent hours and days of research before I made this and bought from my dealer. I didn’t just feel like sending $500 to some random guy in China.

Alright. Grab the pitchforks and bash TD’s! NO, that was never the intention of this post. I’m just enlightening you guys of the situation. DO NOT BASH THE TD’s about their prices. At the end of the day, it’s your money. You decide who and where you want to spend it.

So it’s just $80-120 difference? We pay a premium for a “better service”. I expect better service for all. TDs make a lot more than $80-120. The lack of innovation and slow service becoming a “norm” makes reptime buyers lose value when they buy a watch.